Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> "wp123" writes:
>
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>
> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>
> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>
> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>
> >They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
> >existence at birth.
>
> We're still talking about the social status of personhood, moron.

A person is any entity with the potential for thought.
"Entity with the potential for thought" is not a social status.
Ergo, you are wrong.

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 12:21:57 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.

>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.

>> >> They will be -- once they're born.

>> >They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
>> >existence at birth.

>> We're still talking about the social status of personhood, moron.

>A person is any entity with the potential for thought.

....in your less than considered opinion.

>"Entity with the potential for thought" is not a social status.

It's your imagination, thus your problem.

>Ergo, you are wrong.

You're still a blithering idiot who's been out in the sun too long at Bondi.
+1 713 884-3131 is still the number to call if you really believe your own
babbling.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	Adam H.
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:27:36 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 10:16:00 -0800, "wp123"
wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:

>
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>>
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>>
>> >They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
>> >existence at birth.
>>
>> We're still talking about the social status of personhood, moron.
>
>A person is any entity with the potential for thought.

No, that is also wrong.
That is not what a person is.

>"Entity with the potential for thought" is not a social status.
>Ergo, you are wrong.

Sorry, wrong again.

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 00:10:16 -0800

Attila wrote:
> On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"

> in alt.abortion with message-id
> <1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
> >>
> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >>
> >> We're all former fetuses.
> >
> >Then fetuses must be people.
>
> Nope. Poor effort.

They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
sprang into being when the fetuses were born. So the fetuses and the
people must be the same entities.

Sorry, you lose.

From:	Adam H.
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:17:52 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 00:10:16 -0800, "wp123"
wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:

>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> Nope. Poor effort.
>
>They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
>sprang into being when the fetuses were born. So the fetuses and the
>people must be the same entities.
>
>Sorry, you lose.

Right, just like children must be adults because adults are entities
and no new entities sprang into being when the child had its 18th
birthday.

Right? Like that?

So sorry, you 'lose' (and honestly, anyone who says *that in any way
but a joke gives up any right to have an expectation of being taken
seriously).

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:05:25 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 00:10:16 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106463523.793916.120440@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> Nope. Poor effort.
>
>They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
>sprang into being when the fetuses were born. So the fetuses and the
>people must be the same entities.

Not all entities are persons.

>
>Sorry, you lose.

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	22 Jan 2005 16:20:13 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

I guess that's why I read the same moronic idea fifteen years ago in this
newsgroup. (It shouldn't have to be pointed out to you that it was bullshit
then, and it's bullshit now. We're all former fetuses. Fortunately, the
majority of us decide to move on to more advanced stages of life.)

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, January 22 vs. Grand Rapids, 7:35

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 02:00:24 -0800

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:11:36 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 02:00:24 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106462956.581211.59220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>>
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> They will be -- once they're born.
>
>They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
>existence at birth.

No, but new people do.

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 09:46:44 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> >> We're all former fetuses.

>> >Then fetuses must be people.

>> They will be -- once they're born.

>They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
>existence at birth.

We're still talking about the social status of personhood, moron. Wake me up
if you ever get an original idea into your head.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	22 Jan 2005 22:33:23 -0800

Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> "wp123" writes:
>
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>
> >> We're all former fetuses.
>
> >Then fetuses must be people.
>
> They will be -- once they're born.
>
> (Were you born stupid, or are you studying for it?)
>
> --
> Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston,
Texas
> www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston
Aeros)
> LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
> NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	22 Jan 2005 22:30:22 -0800

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 01:09:59 -0800

Ray Fischer wrote:
> wp123 wrote:
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >>
> >> We're all former fetuses.
> >
> >Then fetuses must be people.
>
> And sperm and egg, too.
>
The sperm and egg cease to exist when they fuse. They can never acquire
thought.

From:	Ray Fischer
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:14:10 GMT

wp123 wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> wp123 wrote:
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> And sperm and egg, too.
>>
>The sperm and egg cease to exist when they fuse.

And the fetus ceases to exist if it's born.

> They can never acquire
>thought.

Nor you it seems.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:19:12 -0800

Adam H. wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2005 00:10:16 -0800, "wp123"

> wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:
>
> >
> >Attila wrote:
> >> On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
> >
> >> in alt.abortion with message-id
> >> <1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> "wp123" writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >> >>
> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
> >> >
> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
> >>
> >> Nope. Poor effort.
> >
> >They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
> >sprang into being when the fetuses were born. So the fetuses and the
> >people must be the same entities.
> >
> >Sorry, you lose.
>
> Right, just like children must be adults because adults are entities
> and no new entities sprang into being when the child had its 18th
> birthday.

Does a new entity spring into existence when the child has its 18th
birthday? No. The child and the adult are the same person.
Sorry, you too lose.

From:	Adam H.
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:26:18 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 10:19:12 -0800, "wp123"
wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:

>
>Adam H. wrote:
>> On 23 Jan 2005 00:10:16 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:
>>
>> >
>> >Attila wrote:
>> >> On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
>> >
>> >> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> >> <1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >> >
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Poor effort.
>> >
>> >They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
>> >sprang into being when the fetuses were born. So the fetuses and the
>> >people must be the same entities.
>> >
>> >Sorry, you lose.
>>
>> Right, just like children must be adults because adults are entities
>> and no new entities sprang into being when the child had its 18th
>> birthday.
>
>Does a new entity spring into existence when the child has its 18th
>birthday? No. The child and the adult are the same person.
>Sorry, you too lose.

So, you're saying that children and adults are the same, are you? And
no, I'm not interested in how you mis-stated what I said. Your 'logic'
proves that children are adults and therefore your 'logic' is faulty.

This is why your arguments fail. It's because they're self-evidently
stupid. Children are not adults, and you are wrong.

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:12:32 -0800

Attila wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2005 02:00:24 -0800, "wp123"

> in alt.abortion with message-id
> <1106462956.581211.59220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
> >>
> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> "wp123" writes:
> >>
> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >>
> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
> >>
> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
> >>
> >> They will be -- once they're born.
> >
> >They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
> >existence at birth.
>
> No, but new people do.

But people are entities.

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:44:33 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 10:12:32 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106503952.228488.80970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 23 Jan 2005 02:00:24 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106462956.581211.59220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >>
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>> >>
>> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>> >
>> >They were people before they were born. New entities don't come into
>> >existence at birth.
>>
>> No, but new people do.
>
>But people are entities.

But not all entities are people.

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 01:18:09 -0800

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 09:45:01 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> >> We're all former fetuses.

>> >Then fetuses must be people.

>> They will be -- once they're born.

>> (Were you born stupid, or are you studying for it?)

Since you've only reposted this five or six times -- without adding any
content -- I'll assume your stupidity is hard-coded into your genes.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800

Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> "wp123" writes:
>
> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>
> We're all former fetuses.

Then fetuses must be people.

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:39:58 -0500

On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> We're all former fetuses.
>
>Then fetuses must be people.

Nope. Poor effort.

From:	Ray Fischer
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:33:43 GMT

wp123 wrote:
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> We're all former fetuses.
>
>Then fetuses must be people.

And sperm and egg, too.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	22 Jan 2005 17:07:55 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> We're all former fetuses.

>Then fetuses must be people.

They will be -- once they're born.

(Were you born stupid, or are you studying for it?)

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:10:42 -0800

Attila wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800, "wp123"

> in alt.abortion with message-id
> <1106461511.496361.313930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
> >>
> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> "wp123" writes:
> >>
> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >>
> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
> >>
> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
> >>
> >> They will be -- once they're born.
> >
> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at
birth.
>
> Irrelevant. A new social status is created by live birth - that of a
> human being, or person.

On what do you base your assertion that "human being" or "person" is a
"social status"? If it were, then "Human beings have rights" would be
an empty tautology. Since it has never been considered such, you are
wrong. A "human being" means and has always meant a biological entity.

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:44:34 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 10:10:42 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106503842.715614.90600@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106461511.496361.313930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >>
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>> >>
>> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>> >
>> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at
>birth.
>>
>> Irrelevant. A new social status is created by live birth - that of a
>> human being, or person.
>
>On what do you base your assertion that "human being" or "person" is a
>"social status"?

It has no meaning in science, and no other animal is considered a
'being'.

> If it were, then "Human beings have rights" would be
>an empty tautology.

It is. The only rights that exist are those recognized and enforced
by law.

>Since it has never been considered such, you are
>wrong. A "human being" means and has always meant a biological entity.

No, it has never meant a biological entity. The term has only been
used for someone who is born alive.

From:	Ray Fischer
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:31:38 GMT

wp123 wrote:
>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106461511.496361.313930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >>
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>> >>
>> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>> >
>> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at
>birth.
>>
>> Irrelevant. A new social status is created by live birth - that of a
>> human being, or person.
>
>On what do you base your assertion that "human being" or "person" is a
>"social status"?

The fact that it has no physical reality.

> If it were, then "Human beings have rights" would be
>an empty tautology.

Some people refuse to accept even tautologies.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

From:	Adam H.
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:26:54 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 10:10:42 -0800, "wp123"
wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:

>
>Attila wrote:
>> On 23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800, "wp123"
>
>> in alt.abortion with message-id
>> <1106461511.496361.313930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>> >>
>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>> >>
>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>> >>
>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>> >>
>> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>> >
>> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at
>birth.
>>
>> Irrelevant. A new social status is created by live birth - that of a
>> human being, or person.
>
>On what do you base your assertion that "human being" or "person" is a
>"social status"? If it were, then "Human beings have rights" would be
>an empty tautology. Since it has never been considered such, you are
>wrong. A "human being" means and has always meant a biological entity.

Wrong. It has meant different things to different peoples at different
times.

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800

From:	Attila
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:04:38 -0500

On 23 Jan 2005 01:15:16 -0800, "wp123"
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1106461511.496361.313930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:
>>
>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>>
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> They will be -- once they're born.
>
>The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at birth.

Irrelevant. A new social status is created by live birth - that of a
human being, or person.

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 09:43:37 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> >> We're all former fetuses.

>> >Then fetuses must be people.

>> They will be -- once they're born.

>The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at birth.

You've already had what's left of your head handed to you on this one,
Crackpot. You're obviously stupid by choice.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	Ray Fischer
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:30:21 GMT

wp123 wrote:
>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:
>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>>
>> >> We're all former fetuses.
>>
>> >Then fetuses must be people.
>>
>> They will be -- once they're born.
>
>The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at birth.

"The people existed before they were [conceived]. No new entity arises
at [fertilization]."

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 01:17:14 -0800

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:11:29 -0800

Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> "wp123" writes:
>
> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> "wp123" writes:
>
> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
>
> >> >> We're all former fetuses.
>
> >> >Then fetuses must be people.
>
> >> They will be -- once they're born.
>
> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at
birth.
>
> You've already had what's left of your head handed to you on this
one,
> Crackpot. You're obviously stupid by choice.
Is that your best shot?

From:	Patrick Lee Humphrey
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 12:16:00 -0600

"wp123" writes:

>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> "wp123" writes:

>> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
>> >> >> "wp123" writes:

>> >> >> >http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
>> >> >> >Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.

>> >> >> We're all former fetuses.

>> >> >Then fetuses must be people.

>> >> They will be -- once they're born.

>> >The people existed before they were born. No new entity arises at birth.

>> You've already had what's left of your head handed to you on this one,
>> Crackpot. You're obviously stupid by choice.

>Is that your best shot?

No, as there's no need to waste my best ammunition on you -- since you're the
perfect brainless clay pigeon.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, San Antonio 2 (January 21)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, January 23 vs. Grand Rapids, 5:05

From:	wp123
Subject:	Re: Former foetus opposes abortion.
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:21:23 -0800

--kitten-- wrote:
> wp123 wrote:
>
> > Attila wrote:
> >
> >>On 22 Jan 2005 15:05:49 -0800, "wp123"
> >
> >
> >
> >>in alt.abortion with message-id
> >><1106435149.917868.313170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>"wp123" writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>http://www.cagle.com/news/abortion/aborgifs4/locherhjk.gif
> >>>>>Good idea for a bumper sticker campaign.
> >>>>
> >>>>We're all former fetuses.
> >>>
> >>>Then fetuses must be people.
> >>
> >>Nope. Poor effort.
> >
> >
> > They must be people because people are entities and no new entities
> > sprang into being when the fetuses were born.
>
> Yes they did. Check your dictionary again: an entity has a SEPERATE,
> INDEPENDENT existence.
> One could reasonably conclude that this includes breathing on your
own,
> processing your own food and not being inside an unwilling someone's
body.
>

No one has a separate independent existence if that means they are
touching nothing and dependent on nothing.