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 | | From: | WillieJ | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | 22 Jan 2005 21:06:12 -0800 |
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David W. Barnes wrote:
> In article <1106452213.722007.86950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> WillieJ wrote:
>
> > osprey wrote:
> > >
> > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
> > > willing to not be so stupid.
> >
> > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
stupid.
> > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
believe
> > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
rest of
> > their lives.
>
> I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
> Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
> slipped on the trigger?
Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it. Put me
in touch with one soldier that says that is true, and back that up by
providing a trail to his friends who would agree.
>
> > They are doing the best they can under horrible, horrible
> > conditions. It is not their fault and my heart goes out to them.
>
> It is the fault of GW Bush, which means it is the fault of everyone
who
> supports him, including Osprey.
Osprey had no idea this kind of shit would happen, don't blame him.
>
> >
> > We know where the fault lies. At the decision point. The decision
to go
> > to war.
>
> The fault lies with the 51% who voted for Bush.
That is too broad a statement. The damage was already done. The 51% do
not see it the same way you and I do. We feel punishing Bush at the
ballot box is the least we can do. Bush won because of security moms
and indignant conservatives.
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| | From: | Osprey | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:28:58 -0500 |
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"WillieJ" wrote in message
news:1106454258.915256.145960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> David W. Barnes wrote:
>> In article <1106452213.722007.86950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>> WillieJ wrote:
>>
>> > osprey wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
>> > > willing to not be so stupid.
>> >
>> > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
> stupid.
>> > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
> believe
>> > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
> rest of
>> > their lives.
>>
>> I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
>> Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
>> slipped on the trigger?
>
> Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
> coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
> carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it.
You are right Willie, it is absolute bullshit. This is pathetic and what
disgust me with so many liberals, not meaning you. They go around preaching
they care about the troops and then they shoot them down like that. It is
pathetic.
Put me
> in touch with one soldier that says that is true, and back that up by
> providing a trail to his friends who would agree.
>>
>> > They are doing the best they can under horrible, horrible
>> > conditions. It is not their fault and my heart goes out to them.
>>
>> It is the fault of GW Bush, which means it is the fault of everyone
> who
>> supports him, including Osprey.
>
> Osprey had no idea this kind of shit would happen, don't blame him.
None of us had any idea.
I will admit, in the beginning I believed that Saddam had WMD and was a
threat.
No wait, let me take that back.
I did question it myself, in fact some of my friends who are hard core right
wing...we actually got into arguments because I questioned it. Which made
me decide to leave the Republican party and go independent. I refuse to be
attacked because I don't goosestep with my party. I am disgusted with
hardliners from both sides. Yea, I was one of those hard right wingers
years ago. Not any more though, now I will question.
Back to the issue in Iraq. Yes, I did think Saddam was a threat and I
supported our going into Iraq. I did question the WMD; however, I took it
at face value and trusted what our government told us. I still believe we
did the right thing because Saddam needed to go. Or we would be dealing with
him for several more decades.
Our soldiers are doing the very best they can do, and I do not believe for
one minute our soldiers are purposely killing any civilians on purpose.
Right or wrong, I will support our troops.
I was in the Air Force myself, from 1983 to 1994. I got out shortly after
the Gulf War. That was when the Government was scaling back. I decided
after 10 years, I was ready to go. So I took the early out. The government
was taking volunteers to go out early, they were looking for E-4's up to
E-7's. I was an E-5.
Anyway, getting back to the troops...
I remember the troops during the Gulf War. I flew as a Crew Chief, I helped
carry many of those troops home. I was very happy that we brought back most
of them.
Our soldiers are the best, they are doing their job.
>>
>> >
>> > We know where the fault lies. At the decision point. The decision
> to go
>> > to war.
>>
>> The fault lies with the 51% who voted for Bush.
>
> That is too broad a statement. The damage was already done. The 51% do
> not see it the same way you and I do. We feel punishing Bush at the
> ballot box is the least we can do. Bush won because of security moms
> and indignant conservatives.
I will have to disagree with you on that. Bush won, and this is my opinion,
due mainly to a lot of bashing against him. Just like Clinton, he was
bashed a lot from the right and it only helped him in the polls. During
war, American's don't like to change horses midstream. Sure, many people
talked and said they were going to vote for Kerry, but when it came to
stepping into that voting booth they most likely changed their mind. Kerry
was a very scary person, he flip flopped way too much. I think Kerry hurt
himself in more ways than one.
I truly like Jonathan Edwards, he is a bright young man who has a future
ahead of him in politics. I wouldn't mind seeing him run again, I liked some
of his ideas.
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| | From: | David W. Barnes | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:59:46 -0800 |
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| In article <8pidna-2KNQFqG7cRVn-sg@comcast.com>, Osprey
wrote:
> "WillieJ" wrote in message
> news:1106454258.915256.145960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > David W. Barnes wrote:
> >> In article <1106452213.722007.86950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> >> WillieJ wrote:
> >>
> >> > osprey wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
> >> > > willing to not be so stupid.
> >> >
> >> > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
> > stupid.
> >> > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
> > believe
> >> > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
> > rest of
> >> > their lives.
> >>
> >> I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
> >> Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
> >> slipped on the trigger?
> >
> > Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
> > coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
> > carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it.
>
> You are right Willie, it is absolute bullshit. This is pathetic and what
> disgust me with so many liberals, not meaning you. They go around preaching
> they care about the troops and then they shoot them down like that. It is
> pathetic.
Notice how Osprey is such a coward is afraid to speak to me. I have
demoralized the guy in the past. He is afraid to stand up to me and
others here but condones other fighting in Iraq.
>
> Put me
> > in touch with one soldier that says that is true, and back that up by
> > providing a trail to his friends who would agree.
> >>
> >> > They are doing the best they can under horrible, horrible
> >> > conditions. It is not their fault and my heart goes out to them.
> >>
> >> It is the fault of GW Bush, which means it is the fault of everyone
> > who
> >> supports him, including Osprey.
> >
> > Osprey had no idea this kind of shit would happen, don't blame him.
>
> None of us had any idea.
Liberals did - and we said so then. You kooks on the right just didn't
want to believe us - just as you don't now. You have to learn the hard
way.
> I will admit, in the beginning I believed that Saddam had WMD and was a
> threat.
"Whatever helps you sleep at night, sweetheart."
> No wait, let me take that back.
Of course. Make it up as you go.
> I did question it myself, in fact some of my friends who are hard core right
> wing...we actually got into arguments because I questioned it.
The ones with the swastikas on their arms, right?
> Which made
> me decide to leave the Republican party and go independent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... No one believes your lies.
> I refuse to be
> attacked because I don't goosestep with my party. I am disgusted with
> hardliners from both sides. Yea, I was one of those hard right wingers
> years ago. Not any more though, now I will question.
Right. How many died while you supported war at any cost?
> Back to the issue in Iraq. Yes, I did think Saddam was a threat and I
> supported our going into Iraq.
As long as you don't have to do the fighting.
> I did question the WMD; however, I took it
> at face value and trusted what our government told us.
Just like a good little nazi.
> I still believe we
> did the right thing because Saddam needed to go.
That is called denial. You are trying to escape responsibility.
> Or we would be dealing with
> him for several more decades.
We created him, you moron!
> Our soldiers are doing the very best they can do, and I do not believe for
> one minute our soldiers are purposely killing any civilians on purpose.
LOL! Sure.
> Right or wrong, I will support our troops.
Exactly the problem. You are a fascist sheep.
> I was in the Air Force myself, from 1983 to 1994. I got out shortly after
> the Gulf War. That was when the Government was scaling back. I decided
> after 10 years, I was ready to go. So I took the early out. The government
> was taking volunteers to go out early, they were looking for E-4's up to
> E-7's. I was an E-5.
And, as he has said in the past, they told him to stay out. They said
he could not come back. Funny - they begged me to come back for years
after I left.
> Anyway, getting back to the troops...
Yeah - you almost forgot about them while you were making excuses...
> I remember the troops during the Gulf War. I flew as a Crew Chief, I helped
> carry many of those troops home. I was very happy that we brought back most
> of them.
So much for "back to the troops."
> Our soldiers are the best, they are doing their job.
Murdering civilians and claiming they are just following orders. That
is what the guards at Aushwitch and Buchenwald said too.
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > We know where the fault lies. At the decision point. The decision
> > to go
> >> > to war.
> >>
> >> The fault lies with the 51% who voted for Bush.
> >
> > That is too broad a statement. The damage was already done. The 51% do
> > not see it the same way you and I do. We feel punishing Bush at the
> > ballot box is the least we can do. Bush won because of security moms
> > and indignant conservatives.
>
>
> I will have to disagree with you on that. Bush won, and this is my opinion,
> due mainly to a lot of bashing against him.
Oh, that makes a lot of sense, spud.
> Just like Clinton, he was
> bashed a lot from the right and it only helped him in the polls.
Moron - the great job Clinton did is what helped him.
> During
> war, American's don't like to change horses midstream.
So the moral for Republicans is - "Keep Us In A "War.""
> Sure, many people
> talked and said they were going to vote for Kerry, but when it came to
> stepping into that voting booth they most likely changed their mind.
They didn't get counted.
> Kerry
> was a very scary person, he flip flopped way too much.
You idiot. You believe whatever you are told.
> I think Kerry hurt
> himself in more ways than one.
The lies for Republicans is what hurt him.
> I truly like Jonathan Edwards, he is a bright young man who has a future
> ahead of him in politics. I wouldn't mind seeing him run again, I liked some
> of his ideas.
Maybe next time you will get his name right, you buffoon.
Or maybe you meant this guy:
http://www.yale.edu/wje/html/life_of__edwards.html
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| | From: | David W. Barnes | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:40:07 -0800 |
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| In article <1106454258.915256.145960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
WillieJ wrote:
> David W. Barnes wrote:
> > In article <1106452213.722007.86950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > WillieJ wrote:
> >
> > > osprey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
> > > > willing to not be so stupid.
> > >
> > > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
> stupid.
> > > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
> believe
> > > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
> rest of
> > > their lives.
> >
> > I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
> > Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
> > slipped on the trigger?
>
> Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
> coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
> carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it. Put me
> in touch with one soldier that says that is true, and back that up by
> providing a trail to his friends who would agree.
While it is obviously difficult to find people who will admit to what
they are doing, some are speaking out - and being disciplined for it.
U.S. "NEWS" agencies also don't tell the stories very often.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200412/s1260377.htm
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13087653_method=fu
ll_siteid=50143_headline=-US-TROOPS-ADMIT-SHOOTING-IRAQI-CIVILIANS-name_
page.html
http://www.refusingtokill.net/USGulfWar2/camilo&AmnestyInternational.htm
http://www.notinourname.net/troops/i-killed-16may04.htm
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1805
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1279127.htm
There are many more.
> >
> > > They are doing the best they can under horrible, horrible
> > > conditions. It is not their fault and my heart goes out to them.
> >
> > It is the fault of GW Bush, which means it is the fault of everyone
> who
> > supports him, including Osprey.
>
> Osprey had no idea this kind of shit would happen, don't blame him.
Is that the standard now? If your are stupid you aren't responsible?
> >
> > >
> > > We know where the fault lies. At the decision point. The decision
> to go
> > > to war.
> >
> > The fault lies with the 51% who voted for Bush.
>
> That is too broad a statement. The damage was already done. The 51% do
> not see it the same way you and I do. We feel punishing Bush at the
> ballot box is the least we can do. Bush won because of security moms
> and indignant conservatives.
Bush won because he convinced so many people to be afraid. Amazing,
isn't it? The Republicans are just scared.
Want to see something else interesting? Here is a list of politicians
who served in the military. See a pattern? Democrats serve.
Republicans makes excuses (but support war).
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
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| | From: | Ray Fischer | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:40:10 GMT |
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| WillieJ wrote:
>David W. Barnes wrote:
>> WillieJ wrote:
>> > osprey wrote:
>> > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
>> > > willing to not be so stupid.
>> >
>> > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
>stupid.
>> > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
>believe
>> > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
>rest of
>> > their lives.
>>
>> I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
>> Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
>> slipped on the trigger?
>
>Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
>coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
>carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it.
How many stories like this do you need to hear before you realize
what's going on? This isn't the first time we've seen reports of a
family being killed.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| | From: | David W. Barnes | | Subject: | Re: American Heros | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:01:34 -0800 |
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| In article , Ray Fischer
wrote:
> WillieJ wrote:
> >David W. Barnes wrote:
> >> WillieJ wrote:
> >> > osprey wrote:
>
> >> > > I am hoping there are some left wing liberals out there that are
> >> > > willing to not be so stupid.
> >> >
> >> > I am a left-wing liberal, and yes, I am willing to not be so
> >stupid.
> >> > These soldiers made a horrible mistake, but there is no way I
> >believe
> >> > they meant to do any of this and it will live with them for the
> >rest of
> >> > their lives.
> >>
> >> I'm a left wing liberal, and how do you figure it was a mistake?
> >> Soldiers coming back say it is the norm. You figure their finger
> >> slipped on the trigger?
> >
> >Just how do you mean they say its the norm? Are you saying troops are
> >coming back and saying that.."yeah, we kill anybody we can, even
> >carloads of families". That is bullshit David and you know it.
>
> How many stories like this do you need to hear before you realize
> what's going on? This isn't the first time we've seen reports of a
> family being killed.
Exactly. Those on the Right are now in denial, just as they were in
Viet Nam. They want to pretend what Kerry said isn't true. Killing
civilians isn't an aberration, it is the norm.
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