Talking numbers
December 15, 2004

Don't get caught out when you want to use Telstra's free directory
service, reports Michelle Innis.

A heavily promoted new directory assistance telephone number can give
you street-by-street directions if you are lost or the name and
telephone number of, say, a Brisbane-based florist open 24 hours a day
that takes Diners card. What it cannot boast is reasonable charges.

By law, Telstra must provide consumers with free directory assistance.
But its subsidiary, Sensis, has launched the operator-assisted Sensis
1234, where users are charged for every minute they are on the
telephone.
"People are calling the new number unaware that it is not a free
service," warns the Australian Consumers Association communications
and IT spokesman Charles Britton. "Better disclosure [of] the fees
would be appropriate."

Teresa Corbin, the executive officer of the Consumers
Telecommunications Network, says: "CTN has received many complaints
from individuals who have been billed for the service, unaware it is
charged at a premium rate."

The service came to Money's attention through an email that has since
been circulated to thousands of people.

The Sensis spokeswoman acknowledged the existence of the email, which
complains about the high cost of Sensis 1234 and the fact the number
for free directory assistance is not promoted.

Sensis 1234 is available to Telstra customers. Sensis manages it along
with Telstra's advertising, directory and information businesses such
as www .yellowpages.com.au, www.whitepages.com.au,
www.citysearch.com.au and www.tradingpost.com.au

There is a 40c connection fee, then it's 4c a second or $2.40 for each
minute you are on the line. If you are calling from a mobile
telephone, normal mobile charges apply as well.

When Money called and asked for a local residential telephone number,
the call was answered quickly and the operator provided the correct
number within 50 seconds of the call being answered. It cost $2.40.
Money also called the free 1223 directory assistance number. One
difference between the premium and the free service is that when you
call 1223 a computer-generated voice answers and asks what name you
are searching for. You are then connected to an operator who provides
you with the number - all within less than a minute, free of charge.

Sensis also manages the free Telstra directory assistance numbers,
which it says it promotes "on page one of all White Pages business
directories [which] are delivered to almost every home and business in
Australia".
Those numbers are 1223 and 12455. Calling 1223 from your Telstra fixed
line at home is free. You can call 12455 and for a fee of $1.10 be
connected to the number you are calling.

If you call 1223 or 12455 from a business or mobile telephone, the
cost is 44c, plus mobile carrier charges.

In a statement, Sensis says the new 1234 premium service has been
heavily promoted because it is new. "As with any new product, the
launch of Sensis 1234 has been advertised to raise consumer awareness
of this new service."

Some analysts believe the hotted-up directory assistance service is
part of an overall program to boost the Sensis product base in
readiness for either the float of Telstra (T3) or the hiving-off of
Sensis, which could be floated as a stand-alone company.

Sensis is not a telecommunications business, but a mix of directories,
listings, advertising and search facilities.

Major offshore telcos have already floated their directory, search and
information businesses because they have strong cash flows. Some
analysts believe Sensis could be worth as much as $10 billion.
Others warn that if Telstra sells Sensis before the T3 float then T3
won't be well received by the market.

The Sensis statement says that, despite the costs, demand for Sensis
1234 has been buoyant. It says consumers calling 1234 can be connected
to nearly all residences and businesses in Australia and operators can
provide callers with access to a highly specialised service -
including finding the nearest pizza parlour.

"Operators can provide callers with directions, via SMS or, on the
caller's request, they will remain on line to provide turn-by-turn
instructions" if the caller is lost, the statement says.

At 4c a second, you would have to be lost for a full 17 minutes to
exceed the cost of a street directory.

Consumer groups say that Sensis has not made clear the charges for the
premium service. They say consumers know that Telstra must provide a
free directory assistance number by law, but could easily be confused
because the new service is heavily promoted while the free numbers are
not.

"The practice of heavily advertising directory services without the
simultaneous advertising of equivalent free services is grossly
misleading for consumers," CTN's Corbin says.

"There is confusion about what is free and what is a premium service."
Britton says: "People know that directory assistance is supposed to be
free, but the free number is an unpublicised facility. It is a huge
mind shift from free or very cheap to expensive and timed. There is
nothing wrong with paying for a premium service, if that's what you
want. But you have to know what it is going to cost before you make
the call."

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:50:58 GMT

> Don't get caught out when you want to use Telstra's free directory
> service, reports Michelle Innis.
>
> A heavily promoted new directory assistance telephone number can give
> you street-by-street directions if you are lost or the name and
> telephone number of, say, a Brisbane-based florist open 24 hours a day
> that takes Diners card. What it cannot boast is reasonable charges.

Neither can Voda's 123, nor Optus' 124Yes

And Voda's 123 has been around for 8 years longer

> By law, Telstra must provide consumers with free directory assistance.
> But its subsidiary, Sensis, has launched the operator-assisted Sensis
> 1234, where users are charged for every minute they are on the
> telephone.

Big deal

> "People are calling the new number unaware that it is not a free
> service," warns the Australian Consumers Association communications
> and IT spokesman Charles Britton. "Better disclosure [of] the fees
> would be appropriate."

Crapshit.
1234 was previously used for operator assisted calls and no one ever
complained about the charges then

From:	Charlie Wong
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:52:43 +1100

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:50:58 GMT, "Michael" wrote:

>1234 was previously used for operator assisted calls and no one ever
>complained about the charges then

When I was an Optus pre-selected customer 1234 was free. Now they
charge too - but not at the exhorbitant rates that Telstra / Sensis
does.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:03:30 GMT

"Charlie Wong" wrote in message
news:dq50s09r3v9m9u8sen20uorni0un57506j@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:50:58 GMT, "Michael" wrote:
>
> >1234 was previously used for operator assisted calls and no one ever
> >complained about the charges then
>
> When I was an Optus pre-selected customer 1234 was free. Now they
> charge too - but not at the exhorbitant rates that Telstra / Sensis
> does.

1234 has always been for operator calls and Optus have always charged for
operator assisted calls

From:	Charlie Wong
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:40:15 +1100

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:03:30 GMT, "Michael" wrote:

>1234 has always been for operator calls and Optus have always charged for
>operator assisted calls

Wrong. 1234 was used by Optus for general long distance inquiries from
Optus preselected customers and in the past was free.

From:	Martin
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:22:39 +1100

"Charlie Wong" wrote in message
news:suqtr0p6olgfg2f7quhqduvf8qvn6gku4a@4ax.com...
> Talking numbers
> December 15, 2004
>
[SNIP]
>
> "There is confusion about what is free and what is a premium service."
> Britton says: "People know that directory assistance is supposed to be
> free, but the free number is an unpublicised facility. It is a huge
> mind shift from free or very cheap to expensive and timed. There is
> nothing wrong with paying for a premium service, if that's what you
> want. But you have to know what it is going to cost before you make
> the call."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if people are too damn stupid
or lazy to READ the telephone directory then they deserve to be charged the
higher costs.

The free number has appeared in my telephone directory for years, just like
everybody elses. Difference is that I (and numerous other people with
common sense) actually looked at the directory and noticed the difference
between the free number and the premium service.

Today Tonight made a big hoo haa about Telstra not advertising the free
number (1223) at all, which I found interesting as I immediately picked up
my directory and looked straight at the free number and the premium number,
with the relevant notes concerning costs and charges... My directory
must've been a special print.. ;-)

From:	Fred Ferd
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:58:38 GMT

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:55:59 GMT

"Martin" wrote in message
news:329auaF3hnh2qU1@individual.net...
> "Charlie Wong" wrote in message
> news:suqtr0p6olgfg2f7quhqduvf8qvn6gku4a@4ax.com...
> > Talking numbers
> > December 15, 2004
> >
> [SNIP]
> >
> > "There is confusion about what is free and what is a premium service."
> > Britton says: "People know that directory assistance is supposed to be
> > free, but the free number is an unpublicised facility. It is a huge
> > mind shift from free or very cheap to expensive and timed. There is
> > nothing wrong with paying for a premium service, if that's what you
> > want. But you have to know what it is going to cost before you make
> > the call."
>
> I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if people are too damn stupid
> or lazy to READ the telephone directory then they deserve to be charged
the
> higher costs.
>
> The free number has appeared in my telephone directory for years, just
like
> everybody elses. Difference is that I (and numerous other people with
> common sense) actually looked at the directory and noticed the difference
> between the free number and the premium service.
>
> Today Tonight made a big hoo haa about Telstra not advertising the free
> number (1223) at all, which I found interesting as I immediately picked up
> my directory and looked straight at the free number and the premium
number,
> with the relevant notes concerning costs and charges... My directory
> must've been a special print.. ;-)

1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
connected
>
>
>
>
>

From:	Lance Lyon
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:25:05 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:PSTvd.73712$K7.36632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> connected

What ? 1223 doesn't exist ? What you been smoking boy ?

Lance

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:45:03 GMT

"Lance Lyon" wrote in message
news:cpr9p1$2r0d$1@news.wnet.ua...
>
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:PSTvd.73712$K7.36632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> > connected
>
>
> What ? 1223 doesn't exist ? What you been smoking boy ?

It is being replaced by 12455 because the ACA said it doesnt fit into the
numbering plan properly

From:	thegoons
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:54:29 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:jWbwd.74709$K7.6488@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Lance Lyon" wrote in message
> news:cpr9p1$2r0d$1@news.wnet.ua...
>>
>> "Michael" wrote in message
>> news:PSTvd.73712$K7.36632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
>> > connected
>>
>>
>> What ? 1223 doesn't exist ? What you been smoking boy ?
>
> It is being replaced by 12455 because the ACA said it doesnt fit into the
> numbering plan properly

ACA never said any such thing.

It was 013 dickhead.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:53:00 GMT

"thegoons" wrote in message
news:32d7r6F3l7ka6U1@individual.net...
>
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:jWbwd.74709$K7.6488@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > "Lance Lyon" wrote in message
> > news:cpr9p1$2r0d$1@news.wnet.ua...
> >>
> >> "Michael" wrote in message
> >> news:PSTvd.73712$K7.36632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >>
> >> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> >> > connected
> >>
> >>
> >> What ? 1223 doesn't exist ? What you been smoking boy ?
> >
> > It is being replaced by 12455 because the ACA said it doesnt fit into
the
> > numbering plan properly
>
> ACA never said any such thing.
>
> It was 013 dickhead.

All the 01x numbers were going then, not a problem

So was 1223, as it didnt fit into the number plan. Telstra used the number
before they should have

http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/telephone_numbering/numbering_advisory_committee_nac/iss9703.htm
- Use of '1223' for directory assistance prior to specification in
Numbering Plan. Notification to Telstra and Optus that ACA will not act
against provision of directory assistance on '1223' pending resolution of
this issue.

From:	Martin
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:21:08 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:MAmwd.75103$K7.29582@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
[SNIP]

>
> All the 01x numbers were going then, not a problem
>
> So was 1223, as it didnt fit into the number plan. Telstra used the number
> before they should have
>
> http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/telephone_numbering/numbering_advisory_committee_nac/iss9703.htm
> - Use of '1223' for directory assistance prior to specification in
> Numbering Plan. Notification to Telstra and Optus that ACA will not act
> against provision of directory assistance on '1223' pending resolution of
> this issue.
>
>

Did you actually READ the ACA paper dickhead? Or just the part you wanted?
The part you quoted simply said that ACA wasn't going to take action about
1223 until the matter had been resolved - i.e. 1223 accepted and the
Numbering Plan amended..

2. Intended/proposed resolution or output/service desired:

Recommendation to the ACA regarding whether the Numbering Plan should be
amended to specify '1223' for directory assistance.

4. History:

a.. 25/03/1999 - Amendment 1 of 1999 was made by the ACA and specified
'1223' as the national directory assistance number.
b.. NAC 3/1998 - Members agreed ?' should be specified in the Plan as the
number on which national directory assistance should be offered, and that
the number may be available as a 'shared' number. A variation to the Plan
has been initiated.
c.. NAC 2/1998 - ACA tabled paper proposing formation of a working group
to consider the number on which national directory assistance should be
provided.
d.. 5/98 - Completion of study into issues regarding misdials to emergency
call services.
e.. 31/12/97 - Plan does not include specification of '1223' as directory
assistance number.
f.. NAC 5/1997 - Vodafone to commence testing (subject to separate support
from NECWG) its proposal for handling misdials to ESNs. Vodafone to advise
CTN prior to commencement of testing. Members to provide comment to Vodafone
by 30/11/97.
g.. NAC 3/1997 - Consideration of Telstra position paper. Subsequent
Vodafone comment supported adoption of '1223' for directory assistance.
h.. Use of '1223' for directory assistance prior to specification in
Numbering Plan. Notification to Telstra and Optus that ACA will not act
against provision of directory assistance on '1223' pending resolution of
this issue.
5. Resolution:

Members agreed ?' should be specified in the Plan as the number on which
national directory assistance should be offered, and that the number may be
available as a 'shared' number.

AND NOW, something extra from the ACA Consumer Bulletins:

http://www.aca.gov.au/consumer_info/publications/bulletins/aca_consumer_bulletin/cbissue14.htm

In brief: Directory assistance numbers

For directory assistance, you can now call 1223, regardless of what
telephone company you are with. This replaces the former 013 and 0175
directory assistance numbers.

Some telephone companies also offer value-added directory assistance
services to their customers. Contact your telephone company to find out the
directory assistance number it provides for customers.

The cost of directory assistance will depend on your choice of telephone
company, whether you're a residential, business or mobile customer and
whether you're using a basic or enhanced directory service.

Call costs associated with dialling 1223 may vary for different phone
companies, but the charge will not be more than that for a local call when
dialled from a standard telephone service.

As a rule of thumb, any numbers for specific directory assistance that begin
with '124' may involve costs that are higher than for a local call, while
the cost of calls to number beginning with '123' will usually be no more
than a local call.

From:	Rodney James
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:51:53 +1000

"Martin" wrote in message
news:32en55F3krggrU1@individual.net...
> As a rule of thumb, any numbers for specific directory assistance that
> begin with '124' may involve costs that are higher than for a local call,
> while the cost of calls to number beginning with '123' will usually be no
> more than a local call.

.... with the obvious exception of Sensis 1234.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:06:02 GMT

"Rodney James" wrote in message
news:32jqlaF3k2olvU1@individual.net...
>
> "Martin" wrote in message
> news:32en55F3krggrU1@individual.net...
> > As a rule of thumb, any numbers for specific directory assistance that
> > begin with '124' may involve costs that are higher than for a local
call,
> > while the cost of calls to number beginning with '123' will usually be
no
> > more than a local call.

Complete and utter rubbish
Voda's 123 service charges an arm and a leg, just like Telstra's 1234

From:	thegoons
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:48:43 +1100

> 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> connected

Bullshit. Telstra will always need to have a service where you cannot simply
ne connected (for payphones, and to prevent override of PABX barring).

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:45:03 GMT

"thegoons" wrote in message
news:32atltF3m3s8pU1@individual.net...
>
> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> > connected
>
> Bullshit. Telstra will always need to have a service where you cannot
simply
> ne connected (for payphones, and to prevent override of PABX barring).

Nope.
U think Telstra has a seperate number for people "attempting" to connect
reverse charge calls to payphones?
Nope, the network works itself out

>
>

From:	thegoons
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:53:58 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:jWbwd.74708$K7.58434@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "thegoons" wrote in message
> news:32atltF3m3s8pU1@individual.net...
>>
>> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
>> > connected
>>
>> Bullshit. Telstra will always need to have a service where you cannot
> simply
>> ne connected (for payphones, and to prevent override of PABX barring).
>
> Nope.
> U think Telstra has a seperate number for people "attempting" to connect
> reverse charge calls to payphones?
> Nope, the network works itself out

Totoally mangled that one up.

There will always be a second number.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:52:55 GMT

"thegoons" wrote in message
news:32d7q7F3m620iU1@individual.net...
>
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:jWbwd.74708$K7.58434@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > "thegoons" wrote in message
> > news:32atltF3m3s8pU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
> >> > connected
> >>
> >> Bullshit. Telstra will always need to have a service where you cannot
> > simply
> >> ne connected (for payphones, and to prevent override of PABX barring).
> >
> > Nope.
> > U think Telstra has a seperate number for people "attempting" to connect
> > reverse charge calls to payphones?
> > Nope, the network works itself out
>
> Totoally mangled that one up.
>
> There will always be a second number.

Nope, no need. The network can work out whether you should be able to be
through-connected
>
>

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:48:48 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:HAmwd.75102$K7.59397@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "thegoons" wrote in message
> news:32d7q7F3m620iU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Michael" wrote in message
>> news:jWbwd.74708$K7.58434@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> >
>> > "thegoons" wrote in message
>> > news:32atltF3m3s8pU1@individual.net...
>> >>
>> >> > 1223 doesnt really exist anymore, its 12455 and you choose not to be
>> >> > connected
>> >>
>> >> Bullshit. Telstra will always need to have a service where you cannot
>> > simply
>> >> ne connected (for payphones, and to prevent override of PABX barring).
>> >
>> > Nope.
>> > U think Telstra has a seperate number for people "attempting" to connect
>> > reverse charge calls to payphones?
>> > Nope, the network works itself out
>>
>> Totoally mangled that one up.
>>
>> There will always be a second number.

> Nope, no need. The network can work out
> whether you should be able to be through-connected

Like hell it can with PABXs, you stupid pig ignorant dunny cleaning fuckwit.

From:	Brendon
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:42:09 +1100

"Michael" wrote in message
news:PSTvd.73712$K7.36632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> 1223 doesnt really exist anymore,

Wrong

From:	Dale
Subject:	Re: Talking numbers
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:24:29 +1030

"Martin" wrote in message
news:329auaF3hnh2qU1@individual.net...
> "Charlie Wong" wrote in message
> news:suqtr0p6olgfg2f7quhqduvf8qvn6gku4a@4ax.com...
> > Talking numbers
> > December 15, 2004
> >
> [SNIP]
> >
> > "There is confusion about what is free and what is a premium service."
> > Britton says: "People know that directory assistance is supposed to be
> > free, but the free number is an unpublicised facility. It is a huge
> > mind shift from free or very cheap to expensive and timed. There is
> > nothing wrong with paying for a premium service, if that's what you
> > want. But you have to know what it is going to cost before you make
> > the call."
>
> I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if people are too damn stupid
> or lazy to READ the telephone directory then they deserve to be charged
the
> higher costs.
>
> The free number has appeared in my telephone directory for years, just
like
> everybody elses. Difference is that I (and numerous other people with
> common sense) actually looked at the directory and noticed the difference
> between the free number and the premium service.
>
> Today Tonight made a big hoo haa about Telstra not advertising the free
> number (1223) at all, which I found interesting as I immediately picked up
> my directory and looked straight at the free number and the premium
number,
> with the relevant notes concerning costs and charges... My directory
> must've been a special print.. ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
I agree!!!

However, have you noticed that the free number is listed differently in the
new directory. I am unsure what it used to be but I know I couldn't find the
Time number very easily.

Dale