Anyone here tried it? How well does it work? Any problems?

I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts in
hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with it?

Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds? If so, are they any
good? (Probably not as good as the sounds one can get from Soundfonts and
software synths these days, but I'm still curious about it.)

I'm glad that Creative is making this PCMCIA sound card. (I just discovered
it on the web tonight.) If it works well, it's really the best kind of
solution for notebooks.

There used to be two good PC card sound cards, the Roland SCP-55, and the
EMU (now owned by Creative), I think numbered 8710, or something like that.
They both did have good hardware wavetable MIDI built in, and that was the
only way to get decent MIDI on notebooks in those days, as it was before the
days of softsynths, and the built-in FM synthesis sounded terrible (and
before USB). Unfortunately, when Windows XP came along, the software wasn't
updated for either of those cards, they wouldn't work in XP, left
completely unsupported.

Now there are many options for notebooks, with many USB and Firewire
external modules. Creative has made a few of those external devices--I
think first the Extigy (too big and non-portable to carry around with a
notebook, IMO.) Then the MP3 Plus. I have that, nice small portable USB, bus
powered. Not as many features as others, but it works. Then the Audigy NX
came along. Small, not much larger than the MP3+, with more features, but I
was surprised it needed an AC brick for power, not powered by the USB port,
which greatly reduces the portable convenience factor.

But a PCMCIA card is more convenient, no external boxes to carry around,
fits inside the notebook. (I wish they built good soundcards into
notebooks!) It doesn't look like it has an external box that it needs to
hook into (which would be another thing to carry around), it just has a part
that sticks out of the notebook at the end, with the in and out ports. (No
MIDI in and out ports like on the cards mentioned above, but these days
there are many USB devices that can do that, as well as MIDI keyboards that
can hook directly into the USB port, without an adapter.)

I think there might be one or two other PCMCIA sound cards available today.
One I've heard of is the Echo Indigo I/O. Supposed to be quite good. I think
much more expensive than this Creative device though. ($129 plus shipping on
Creative web site, $115 and free shipping from Amazon). It would be
interesting if someone did a comparative review of the couple PCMCIA sound
cards available today.

In any case, if anyone has used one of these, please review it for us. :-)
Thank you.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to all!

From:	Kevin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:30:30 -0800

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm considering the Audigy, and it will be USB'd
into my docked notebook. I have some higher freq distortion on most MP3's.
I know my little 2.1 Labtek is very consumer grade, but it sounds so good
most of the time. It's playing a cd now, and has the same high freq speaker
rattle. So my plan was Audigy with a $300 2.0 or 2.1 computer speaker.
Then someone recommended a good 5.1 system. Or maybe wifi into my home
stereo system. So may choices, and I'm not sure what to do.

It is very convenient to stay notebook at home, for when I pick up and go,
nothing got left behind.

" MS" wrote in message
news:1103874008.114862@news-1.nethere.net...
> Anyone here tried it? How well does it work? Any problems?
>
>today.
>
> In any case, if anyone has used one of these, please review it for us. :-)
> Thank you.
>
> Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to all!
>
>

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:08:14 GMT

-by shooting...

2 cups finely chopped very young human flesh
1 cup shredded cabbage
1 cup bean sprouts
5 sprigs green onion, finely chopped
5 cloves minced garlic
4-6 ounces bamboo shoots
Sherry
chicken broth
oil for deep frying (1 gallon)
Salt
pepper
soy & teriyaki
minced ginger, etc.
1 tablespoon cornstarch dissolved in a little cold water
1 egg beaten

Make the stuffing:
Marinate the flesh in a mixture of soy and teriyaki sauces
then stir fry in hot oil for till brown - about 1 minute, remove.
Stir-fry the vegetables.
Put the meat back into the wok and adjust the seasoning.
De-glaze with sherry, cooking off the alcohol.
Add broth (optional) cook a few more minutes.
Add the cornstarch, cook a few minutes till thick,
then place the stuffing into a colander and cool;
2 hours
Wrap the rolls:
Place 3 tablespoons of stuffing in the wrap, roll tightly -
corner nearest you first, fold 2 side corners in,
wrap till remaining corner is left.
Brush with egg, seal, and allow to sit on the seal for
a few minutes.
Fry the rolls:
325° if using egg roll wraps, 350° for spring roll wraps.
Deep fry in peanut oil till crispy golden brown, drain on paper towels.

Lemon Neonate

Turkey serves just as well, and in fact even looks a bit like a
well-dressed baby. By the time you turn the child?s breast into
cutlets, it will be indistinguishable. The taste of young human,
although similar to turkey (and chicken) often can be wildly
different depending upon what he or she has consumed during its
10 to 14 months of life...

4 well chosen cutlets (from the breasts of 2 healthy neonates)
2 large lemons (fresh lemons always, if possible)
Olive oil
Green onions
Salt
pepper
cornstarch
neonate stock (chicken, or turkey stock is fine)
garlic
parsley
fresh cracked black

From:	Explorer
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	11 Jan 2005 16:52:25 -0800

The card will definitely play back MIDI sequences, assuming the
appropriate software support. I own one. I also own the older SB Live!
USB External 24-bit box, and I really can't tell the difference in
sound quality or capabilities between the cards.

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:50:55 GMT

the giblets from the infant and set aside.
Stuff the cavity where the child?s genitals and anus were located
using ½ cup per pound of meat.
Tie the arms flat to the body, then pull the skin flaps up to close the cavity.
Now tie the thighs up tight to hold it all together.
Place breast side up in a large metal roasting pan.
Bake in 325° oven covered for 2 hours.
Remove cover, stick a cooking thermometer deep into one of the
baby?s buttocks and cook uncovered till thermometer reads 190°,
about another hour.

Pro-Choice Po-Boy

Soft-shelled crabs serve just as well in this classic southern delicacy.
The sandwich originated in New Orleans, where an abundance of abortion clinics
thrive and hot French bread is always available.

2 cleaned fetuses, head on
2 eggs
1 tablespoon yellow mustard
1 cup seasoned flour
oil enough for deep frying
1 loaf French bread
Lettuce
tomatoes
mayonnaise, etc.

Marinate the fetuses in the egg-mustard mixture.
Dredge thoroughly in flour.
Fry at 375° until crispy golden brown.
Remove and p

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:54:44 -0600

" MS" wrote in message
news:1103874008.114862@news-1.nethere.net...
> Anyone here tried it? How well does it work? Any problems?
>
> I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts in
> hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with it?
>

The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).

> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?

This technology isn't used anymore. :)

Shylirin

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:13:45 +0000

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:54:44 -0600, "Shylirin"
wrote:

>> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
>
>This technology isn't used anymore. :)

Sure it is. In plenty of midi expanders and keyboards. High-end
stuff as well :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:38:27 -0800

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news:u2vvs0pekumjkqo9ptemt0hed0fefu11mo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:54:44 -0600, "Shylirin"
> wrote:
>
> >> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
> >
> >This technology isn't used anymore. :)
>
> Sure it is. In plenty of midi expanders and keyboards. High-end
> stuff as well :-)

Of course.

He probably means that it is not important for computer sound cards any
more, as people use software synths these days on computers, which can
provide a great variety of sounds from the same computer. Therefore,
built-in hardware wavetable MIDI is not so important as before. I don't know
if he's correct in saying that hardware MIDI sounds built into sound card
doesn't exist at all any more.

If Shylin was saying that MIDI isn't used any more---then he is very wrong.

But I hope this thread doesn't get hijacked into that argument. If someone
wants to argue whether MIDI is "alive" or "dead", start a new thread about
it. I'm still interested in finding out more about the card that titles this
thread.

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:13:00 -0600

" MS" wrote in message
news:1104169360.535376@news-1.nethere.net...
>
> "Laurence Payne" wrote in message
> news:u2vvs0pekumjkqo9ptemt0hed0fefu11mo@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:54:44 -0600, "Shylirin"
> > wrote:
> >
> > >> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
> > >
> > >This technology isn't used anymore. :)
> >
> > Sure it is. In plenty of midi expanders and keyboards. High-end
> > stuff as well :-)
>
> Of course.
>
> He probably means that it is not important for computer sound cards any
> more, as people use software synths these days on computers, which can
> provide a great variety of sounds from the same computer. Therefore,
> built-in hardware wavetable MIDI is not so important as before. I don't
know
> if he's correct in saying that hardware MIDI sounds built into sound card
> doesn't exist at all any more.

That's the gist of it... all the standard, end-user style plug and go cards
don't use the hardware MIDI sounds built on the sound card since the other
technology is better (you can utilize more samples). Thanks for the help
with clarity.

> If Shylin was saying that MIDI isn't used any more---then he is very
wrong.

Correct.. was not meaning to say that MIDI is not used any more. Very much
the opposite.

> But I hope this thread doesn't get hijacked into that argument. If someone
> wants to argue whether MIDI is "alive" or "dead", start a new thread about
> it. I'm still interested in finding out more about the card that titles
this
> thread.

Thanks!
Shylirin

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:57:15 -0600

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:35:48 +0000

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:57:15 -0600, "Shylirin"
wrote:

>> >> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
>> >
>> >This technology isn't used anymore. :)
>>
>> Sure it is. In plenty of midi expanders and keyboards. High-end
>> stuff as well :-)
>
>Well, that is true basically for items that don't *require* a computer to
>produce the sound. I was giving a "sound card in a computer" answer,
>instead of including the sound equipment the more professional folks use.
>D'oh! ;-)

Soundblasters and Audigys, still the most popular sound entry-level
sound cards for budding musicians, have wavetable synths.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:11:32 -0600

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news:nmk2t0pik9k5sh0fq3t59n1m7orr0s85uo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:57:15 -0600, "Shylirin"
> wrote:
>
> >> >> Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
> >> >
> >> >This technology isn't used anymore. :)
> >>
> >> Sure it is. In plenty of midi expanders and keyboards. High-end
> >> stuff as well :-)
> >
> >Well, that is true basically for items that don't *require* a computer to
> >produce the sound. I was giving a "sound card in a computer" answer,
> >instead of including the sound equipment the more professional folks use.
> >D'oh! ;-)
>
> Soundblasters and Audigys, still the most popular sound entry-level
> sound cards for budding musicians, have wavetable synths.

However, the Soundfonts are not built-on hardware on the Creative cards
themselves. They are stored on the hard drive, and the drivers load the
Soundfonts are loaded from there into the RAM. Hopefully that explanation
helps... :)

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:52:19 -0800

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:IfpAd.374$tu2.87726@sooner.brightok.net...

> However, the Soundfonts are not built-on hardware on the Creative cards
> themselves. They are stored on the hard drive, and the drivers load the
> Soundfonts are loaded from there into the RAM. Hopefully that explanation
> helps... :)

I don't think he (Lawrence, whom you were replying to) was referring to
Soundfonts, but to the built-in GM wavetable sounds. I don't think he's
correct that all current soundblasters have such sounds. (I have a SB USB
sound card, the MP3+, and it certainly has no such built-in MIDI sounds, and
I don't know about this PC card, I rather doubt it, but it is possible that
the SB cards for desktop computers still have built-in hardware wavetable
MIDI sounds. I don't know.

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:55:14 +0000

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:52:19 -0800, " MS"
wrote:

>I don't think he (Lawrence, whom you were replying to) was referring to
>Soundfonts, but to the built-in GM wavetable sounds. I don't think he's
>correct that all current soundblasters have such sounds. (I have a SB USB
>sound card, the MP3+, and it certainly has no such built-in MIDI sounds, and
>I don't know about this PC card, I rather doubt it, but it is possible that
>the SB cards for desktop computers still have built-in hardware wavetable
>MIDI sounds. I don't know.

Yup. We need a term other than "sound card" for external audio
interfaces I think :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:31:04 +0000

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:11:32 -0600, "Shylirin"
wrote:

>> Soundblasters and Audigys, still the most popular sound entry-level
>> sound cards for budding musicians, have wavetable synths.
>
>However, the Soundfonts are not built-on hardware on the Creative cards
>themselves. They are stored on the hard drive, and the drivers load the
>Soundfonts are loaded from there into the RAM. Hopefully that explanation
>helps... :)

You do note, however, that these cards have hardware wavetable synths
as well as Soundfont capability?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:48:37 -0800

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news:nmk2t0pik9k5sh0fq3t59n1m7orr0s85uo@4ax.com...

> Soundblasters and Audigys, still the most popular sound entry-level
> sound cards for budding musicians, have wavetable synths.

I doubt many musicians use the inboard sounds on these cards, however, as
most use software sounds on computers these days, which can provide much
more variety and quality than the built-in MIDI sounds on a Soundblaster.
And one as small as the PC card quite likely does not have built-in sounds.
I wasn't clear about that, therefore I asked. It's not clear from the specs

Soundblaster cards are probably the most used sound cards overall, as they
are the most available, most advertised, etc., very common in any
electronics and computer store.

Whether they are the "most popular among musicians", "budding" or not, is a
different story. When I asked in various music forums to compare this card
with the Indigo I/O, most replies were very negative towards Soundblasters.
(Not that they tried this PC card version, but the response to soundblasters
in general was quite negative.) (For instance, look at

www.cakewalk.com/forum , and do a search on "Soundblaster".

The SB is more oriented towards the general consumer market, not towards
musicians. They have been quite successful though--they must sell far more
soundcards than any other company!

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:52:17 +0000

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:48:37 -0800, " MS"
wrote:

>Whether they are the "most popular among musicians", "budding" or not, is a
>different story. When I asked in various music forums to compare this card
>with the Indigo I/O, most replies were very negative towards Soundblasters.

I used "budding" advisedly. When a beginner computer-musician asks
for a "better" sound card, computer shops generally sell him an
Audigy.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:01:23 -0800

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news:m765t091vv3p4sennm4bhgauvpqtvfsa47@4ax.com...

> I used "budding" advisedly. When a beginner computer-musician asks
> for a "better" sound card, computer shops generally sell him an
> Audigy.

Yes, of course. As I said, Creative sells a LOT of sound cards, probably
much more than all other sound card companies put together. They are great
at marketing! Cool sounding names like "Audigy", a logo that everyone
remembers, great ad copy, and computer stores stock a lot of them. So, of
course a clerk in a computer store would steer people towards it.

But again--if you ask about Soundblasters on a forum of pro electronic music
people, they tend to have a negative attitude towards Soundblasters. (Might
be partly snobbishness, I don't know. But there may be something to it as
well. They are probably not the best cards for people working seriously with
music on the computer. But they might be fine for most people.)

From:	Barry Graham
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Fri, 31 Dec 2004 17:46:24 +1100

" MS" wrote in message
news:1104470775.330711@news-1.nethere.net...

>They are probably not the best cards for people working seriously with
> music on the computer. But they might be fine for most people.)
>

And it also depends on what your needs are.
If you a scoring for live performance the audio properties are of little
interest.
I still use an AWE32 with the 8Mb Chaos sf which gives a close enough
approximation of brass and saxes to audition the playback when writing -
certainly better sound than Roland or Yamaha soft synths that seem to have a
lot of support here.
I'd be tempted to get the Audigy Notebook for my new notebook - but I'd like
to hear some positive feedback on it's MIDI capabilities first - most of
Creative's promotion concentrates on the audio aspects.

-------------------------------------
Barry Graham
Top Brass Events Band
Melbourne, Australia
www.topbrass.com.au

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:08:35 +0000

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 17:46:24 +1100, "Barry Graham"
wrote:

>I'd be tempted to get the Audigy Notebook for my new notebook - but I'd like
>to hear some positive feedback on it's MIDI capabilities first - most of
>Creative's promotion concentrates on the audio aspects.

The flier says:
"Create professional quality music anywhere with ASIO 2.0 support,
SoundFont® support, and hardware audio."

That sounds promising, but I'd want confirmation that "hardware audio"
means what we hope it means :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:04:17 +0000

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:01:23 -0800, " MS"
wrote:

>> I used "budding" advisedly. When a beginner computer-musician asks
>> for a "better" sound card, computer shops generally sell him an
>> Audigy.
>
>Yes, of course. As I said, Creative sells a LOT of sound cards, probably
>much more than all other sound card companies put together. They are great
>at marketing! Cool sounding names like "Audigy", a logo that everyone
>remembers, great ad copy, and computer stores stock a lot of them. So, of
>course a clerk in a computer store would steer people towards it.
>
>But again--if you ask about Soundblasters on a forum of pro electronic music
>people, they tend to have a negative attitude towards Soundblasters. (Might
>be partly snobbishness, I don't know. But there may be something to it as
>well. They are probably not the best cards for people working seriously with
>music on the computer. But they might be fine for most people.)

You miss my point. I don't recommend SoundBlaster cards for serious
musical use (though the jury may still be out regarding the latest
Audigy 4). I just recognise that a LOT of people buy them. And
that, having bought one, they come to the forums to find out why their
tracks don't synch properly. Funny thing, people often buy first, ask
for advice later :-)

Surely you know the quite specific reason why SB cards have this
problem?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	xevious
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:54:50 -0500

> > Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
>
> This technology isn't used anymore. :)

Ho yes it is used in club and bar !!!

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:20:09 -0800

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...

> > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts in
> > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with it?
> >
>
> The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).

Is that better than a purely software Soundfont synth, such as are available
as DXI or VST plugins?

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:08:33 -0600

" MS" wrote in message
news:1104135635.950297@news-1.nethere.net...
>
> "Shylirin" wrote in message
> news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
>
> > > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts
in
> > > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with
it?
> > >
> >
> > The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> > recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
>
> Is that better than a purely software Soundfont synth, such as are
available
> as DXI or VST plugins?

This is definitely better than purely software, as it sounds much better due
to the recording used as the base. Also, it should be better since it can be
used to produce truer sound depending on how much sampling and extrapolation
you do. Most people never use that level of functionality, though...

Shylirin

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:51:18 -0800

I'm not sure you understood my question. (Responding to your response at
bottom.)

I asked if the Audigy notebook card uses hardware memory in the card to
store the Soundfonts. You said no, but the hardware does the mathematical
extrapolations. (Are you actually familiar with the Audigy notebook card, or
are you speaking in general about Soundblasters?)

I asked if there was an advantage to the chip in the card doing the
"mathematical extrapolations", rather than that job being done by the
computer's CPU. You replied that it was much better, due to the samples
used. I don't think you understood my question.

There is software you can use to play soundfonts (mostly in the form of DXI
and VST plugin synths), that work with any card, they do not require a
Soundblaster card. Of course, they are using the computer's CPU and RAM to
store and play the Soundfonts, not being tied to a particular sound card.
But there is no difference in the sounds, in the samples!! That all depends
on which soundfonts you choose to use. You could use the exact same sounds,
exact same soundfonts, regardless of which of the two playback setups you
use--Soundblaster card, or soundfont-playing software with any sound card.

It sounds like you are comparing to using soundfonts vs using something
else, like the default Microsoft GS Wavetable synth in Windows. I was asking
about using soundfonts vs. using soundfonts. Same sounds either way. My
question regards whether there is any advantage to using the Soundblaster's
built-in support for soundfonts, over playing soundfonts on any sound card
using a software synth that can load soundfonts. What would you say to that?

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:P64Ad.365$tu2.86896@sooner.brightok.net...
>
> " MS" wrote in message
> news:1104135635.950297@news-1.nethere.net...
> >
> > "Shylirin" wrote in message
> > news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
> >
> > > > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts
> in
> > > > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with
> it?
> > > >
> > >
> > > The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> > > recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
> >
> > Is that better than a purely software Soundfont synth, such as are
> available
> > as DXI or VST plugins?
>
> This is definitely better than purely software, as it sounds much better
due
> to the recording used as the base. Also, it should be better since it can
be
> used to produce truer sound depending on how much sampling and
extrapolation
> you do. Most people never use that level of functionality, though...
>
> Shylirin
>
>

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:02:13 -0600

" MS" wrote in message
news:1104205951.583933@news-1.nethere.net...
> I'm not sure you understood my question. (Responding to your response at
> bottom.)
>
> I asked if the Audigy notebook card uses hardware memory in the card to
> store the Soundfonts. You said no, but the hardware does the mathematical
> extrapolations. (Are you actually familiar with the Audigy notebook card,
or
> are you speaking in general about Soundblasters?)

Yes, I am familiar with the tech specs on it (never used it in my notebook
though), and yes, that is correct.

> I asked if there was an advantage to the chip in the card doing the
> "mathematical extrapolations", rather than that job being done by the
> computer's CPU. You replied that it was much better, due to the samples
> used. I don't think you understood my question.

It's better than using entirely the system processor, because it offloads
some of the processing onto the PCMCIA card.

> There is software you can use to play soundfonts (mostly in the form of
DXI
> and VST plugin synths), that work with any card, they do not require a
> Soundblaster card. Of course, they are using the computer's CPU and RAM to
> store and play the Soundfonts, not being tied to a particular sound card.
> But there is no difference in the sounds, in the samples!! That all
depends
> on which soundfonts you choose to use. You could use the exact same
sounds,
> exact same soundfonts, regardless of which of the two playback setups you
> use--Soundblaster card, or soundfont-playing software with any sound card.
> It sounds like you are comparing to using soundfonts vs using something
> else, like the default Microsoft GS Wavetable synth in Windows. I was
asking
> about using soundfonts vs. using soundfonts. Same sounds either way. My
> question regards whether there is any advantage to using the
Soundblaster's
> built-in support for soundfonts, over playing soundfonts on any sound card
> using a software synth that can load soundfonts. What would you say to
that?

VST is just there to manage MIDI instruments or devices (such as
soundfonts), you still need a synthesizer to produce the sound (talked with
my professional MIDI guys to confirm this, as they work with the software
all day). The Creative cards take actual sounds and manipulates it to
produce more realistic sounds. The advantage is that you have less
dependence on the CPU to do the processes (i.e., increases system speed),
plus the more realistic sounds mentioned above. Software synthesizers can
drain your system's resources, especially when using more professional grade
musical creation tools. Creative invented Soundfonts, and made them an open
standard, so that other cards also use Soundfonts. Creative designs it's
hardware around the idea that Soundfonts will be used. As other companies
can use the same technology, to determine which card "sounds" best to you,
try listening to them to see which sounds best to your ear. If I remember
correctly, Creative has one of the best signal-to-noise ratios on the
market, and the better the signal-to-noise ratio, the better the sound
quality for a given level of sound. So... any software plus any sound card
may not produce the best quality sound.

I was replying in a general sense, since Creative is not the only company
that utilizes RAM to store the Soundfonts and the chip on the card to do the
mathematical extrapolations. I was meaning to state that storing the
Soundfonts on the actual hardware sound card was not as good as the current
general technology, which is to store the Soundfonts in RAM and use a
chipset (on the card) to do the extrapolations.

Sorry if this isn't coming across well... it's not coming out quite like I
would like it to. I hope this helps better than my other posts... :)

Shylirin
>
> "Shylirin" wrote in message
> news:P64Ad.365$tu2.86896@sooner.brightok.net...
> >
> > " MS" wrote in message
> > news:1104135635.950297@news-1.nethere.net...
> > >
> > > "Shylirin" wrote in message
> > > news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
> > >
> > > > > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store
Soundfonts
> > in
> > > > > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes
with
> > it?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> > > > recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
> > >
> > > Is that better than a purely software Soundfont synth, such as are
> > available
> > > as DXI or VST plugins?
> >
> > This is definitely better than purely software, as it sounds much better
> due
> > to the recording used as the base. Also, it should be better since it
can
> be
> > used to produce truer sound depending on how much sampling and
> extrapolation
> > you do. Most people never use that level of functionality, though...
> >
> > Shylirin
> >
> >
>
>

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:21:50 -0800

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:Z6pAd.373$tu2.87655@sooner.brightok.net...

I don't think you know what you are talking about. Have you ever used VST
synths? Are you involved in music creation? Your statement "you still need a
synthesizer to produce the sound" doesn't make sense. There are VST
synthesizers, including ones that an load soundfonts, as well as other
samples.

It sounds like you are a spokesman for Creative. Do you work for them?

In asking around about soundcards, including forums that people who create
music write to, trying to decide between this Audigy PCMCIA card and the
Echo Indigo I/O, most people who work with music advised against using any
soundblaster card, that they have a lot of problems in that area. I ordered
the Indigo I/O card today.

(For instance, look at

www.cakewalk.com/forum

and do a search for "Soundblaster", and see what the writers' responses are
to SBs. (In fact I posted there similar to here, asking to compare the two
PCMCIA cards.)

(Cakewalk is a producer of one of the most popular pro music production
software, "Sonar", as well as consumer level versions).

One of the things mentioned is that the given specs for SB cards are often
not true, such as that S/N ratio, that they exaggerate their specs.

Of course I don't know for a fact that what anyone writes on the Internet is
true. But it seemed to be the overwhelming opinion among people working in
music production, to stay away from Soundblaster cards, and there was a lot
of praise for the Indigo I/O, which has been out longer, and many music
people have used and liked. (Not that they tried the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook,
but gave a general warning about SB cards.) So I went with the Indigo, which
has a great reputation among musicians, even though it cost more.

I'm not saying that would be the choice for everyone. For instance, someone
who wants surround sound (gamers, etc.) should go with the Audigy. Also,
someone for whom digital I/O is important. Any anyone who wants to save
money, as it costs considerably less. (I paid $163 for the Indigo I/O
(including shipping), which is about as low as it can go. The lowest I've
seen for the Audigy notebook is about $115, so that's a $50 difference,
certainly something to consider. (The list prices show a $100 difference!
$229 vs $129)

I'm glad Creative came out with a PCMCIA sound card, expanding the range of
choices for notebook users. And reading about it gave me the impetus to
purchase such a card. But in the end, I decided that for my uses I'd more
likely find the Indigo I/O more suitable, even though it costs more.

Again though--you shouldn't pretend to know about something you know nothing
about. Your first sentence below--"VST is just there to manage MIDI
instruments", shows a complete lack of knowledge about the subject. It's
quite OK not to know about something, but don't pretend that you do. VST and
DXI plug-ins do a lot than "just manage MIDI instruments or devices". That
is a completely erroneous statement, and by making false statements like
that you might mislead others who aren't familiar with this, and are trying
to learn, as you sound like you know what you are talking about, but you
don't. Please be more careful about that next time.

(To see some VST plugins (including freeware, demos, and ads for commercial
software), go to:

www.kvraudio.com

and many other sites.)

> VST is just there to manage MIDI instruments or devices (such as
> soundfonts), you still need a synthesizer to produce the sound (talked
with
> my professional MIDI guys to confirm this, as they work with the software
> all day). The Creative cards take actual sounds and manipulates it to
> produce more realistic sounds. The advantage is that you have less
> dependence on the CPU to do the processes (i.e., increases system speed),
> plus the more realistic sounds mentioned above. Software synthesizers can
> drain your system's resources, especially when using more professional
grade
> musical creation tools. Creative invented Soundfonts, and made them an
open
> standard, so that other cards also use Soundfonts. Creative designs it's
> hardware around the idea that Soundfonts will be used. As other companies
> can use the same technology, to determine which card "sounds" best to you,
> try listening to them to see which sounds best to your ear. If I remember
> correctly, Creative has one of the best signal-to-noise ratios on the
> market, and the better the signal-to-noise ratio, the better the sound
> quality for a given level of sound. So... any software plus any sound
card
> may not produce the best quality sound.
>
> I was replying in a general sense, since Creative is not the only company
> that utilizes RAM to store the Soundfonts and the chip on the card to do
the
> mathematical extrapolations. I was meaning to state that storing the
> Soundfonts on the actual hardware sound card was not as good as the
current
> general technology, which is to store the Soundfonts in RAM and use a
> chipset (on the card) to do the extrapolations.
>
> Sorry if this isn't coming across well... it's not coming out quite like I
> would like it to. I hope this helps better than my other posts... :)
>
> Shylirin
> >
> > "Shylirin" wrote in message
> > news:P64Ad.365$tu2.86896@sooner.brightok.net...
> > >
> > > " MS" wrote in message
> > > news:1104135635.950297@news-1.nethere.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Shylirin" wrote in message
> > > > news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
> > > >
> > > > > > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store
> Soundfonts
> > > in
> > > > > > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes
> with
> > > it?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual
sound
> > > > > recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
> > > >
> > > > Is that better than a purely software Soundfont synth, such as are
> > > available
> > > > as DXI or VST plugins?
> > >
> > > This is definitely better than purely software, as it sounds much
better
> > due
> > > to the recording used as the base. Also, it should be better since it
> can
> > be
> > > used to produce truer sound depending on how much sampling and
> > extrapolation
> > > you do. Most people never use that level of functionality, though...
> > >
> > > Shylirin
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:59:21 -0600

" MS" wrote in message
news:1104301703.815653@news-1.nethere.net...
>
> "Shylirin" wrote in message
> news:Z6pAd.373$tu2.87655@sooner.brightok.net...
>
> I don't think you know what you are talking about. Have you ever used VST
> synths? Are you involved in music creation? Your statement "you still need
a
> synthesizer to produce the sound" doesn't make sense. There are VST
> synthesizers, including ones that an load soundfonts, as well as other
> samples.
>
> It sounds like you are a spokesman for Creative. Do you work for them?
> In asking around about soundcards, including forums that people who create
> music write to, trying to decide between this Audigy PCMCIA card and the
> Echo Indigo I/O, most people who work with music advised against using any
> soundblaster card, that they have a lot of problems in that area. I
ordered
> the Indigo I/O card today.

I don't think YOU know what you are talking about. I not only do creation,
but know people who do much more than I do and have setups that are beyond
anything I will ever do. I am not a spokesman for Creative, I don't work
for them. You asked about the Creative card and why it might be the better
way to go. I know the technical on the Creative card, never used that
particular one myself, but know a couple of folks who do. So I commented on
why you might want the Creative card. I did say that it wasn't the only
card out there, and that you should listen to others and pick one that
sounds best to you. I don't do my work on a notebook, so all I can offer
for information is what technical I know, and how my friends like theirs. I
am pleased to hear you have ordered a card you like and feel comfortable
with. I like my Creative card. To each their own. I know NOTHING at all
about the Indigo card... and don't know anyone who uses it, so I can't
comment on that card.

> (For instance, look at
>
> www.cakewalk.com/forum
>
> and do a search for "Soundblaster", and see what the writers' responses
are
> to SBs. (In fact I posted there similar to here, asking to compare the two
> PCMCIA cards.)
>
> (Cakewalk is a producer of one of the most popular pro music production
> software, "Sonar", as well as consumer level versions).

I do know who Cakewalk is, and I've worked with the software. Didn't like
some of the user interface, but I find that is true of many programs.

> One of the things mentioned is that the given specs for SB cards are
often
> not true, such as that S/N ratio, that they exaggerate their specs.

Never had a problem with this on any of my cards, no one else in the field
that I know personally said they had an issue with this.

> Of course I don't know for a fact that what anyone writes on the Internet
is
> true. But it seemed to be the overwhelming opinion among people working in
> music production, to stay away from Soundblaster cards, and there was a
lot
> of praise for the Indigo I/O, which has been out longer, and many music
> people have used and liked. (Not that they tried the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook,
> but gave a general warning about SB cards.) So I went with the Indigo,
which
> has a great reputation among musicians, even though it cost more.

> I'm not saying that would be the choice for everyone. For instance,
someone
> who wants surround sound (gamers, etc.) should go with the Audigy. Also,
> someone for whom digital I/O is important. Any anyone who wants to save
> money, as it costs considerably less. (I paid $163 for the Indigo I/O
> (including shipping), which is about as low as it can go. The lowest I've
> seen for the Audigy notebook is about $115, so that's a $50 difference,
> certainly something to consider. (The list prices show a $100 difference!
> $229 vs $129)

I agree... different cards are better suited to different people and
different applications.

> I'm glad Creative came out with a PCMCIA sound card, expanding the range
of
> choices for notebook users. And reading about it gave me the impetus to
> purchase such a card. But in the end, I decided that for my uses I'd more
> likely find the Indigo I/O more suitable, even though it costs more.
>
> Again though--you shouldn't pretend to know about something you know
nothing
> about. Your first sentence below--"VST is just there to manage MIDI
> instruments", shows a complete lack of knowledge about the subject. It's
> quite OK not to know about something, but don't pretend that you do. VST
and
> DXI plug-ins do a lot than "just manage MIDI instruments or devices". That
> is a completely erroneous statement, and by making false statements like
> that you might mislead others who aren't familiar with this, and are
trying
> to learn, as you sound like you know what you are talking about, but you
> don't. Please be more careful about that next time.
>
> (To see some VST plugins (including freeware, demos, and ads for
commercial
> software), go to:
>
> www.kvraudio.com
>
> and many other sites.)

Notice I said VST, and NOT VST plugins. There is a difference. You do know
that you have to have hardware involved to do anything with sound, correct?
VST is software. It integrates with your hardware (whether that be your
MB-integrated sound chip, MIDI instrument, or sound card). If you have no
sound card, sound chip, or MIDI instrument, you get doodly-squat if you just
load the VST software. Ergo, VST software manages your sound hardware,
soundfonts, provides software functionality, etc. Using an integrated sound
chip and VST software alone, or an attached MIDI instrument will cause the
CPU to take the brunt of increased processing. Using a sound card will
reduce the workload on the CPU. The particular card we were discussing even
comes bundled with Cubasis (in the Platinum Pro package, according to
Creative's site), which is a software program from Steinberg, who invented
VST.

Again... I know what I am talking about. You seem to have a misuderstanding
of how the hardware-software interface works, and what is hardware based vs.
software based. Perhaps I have not expressed myself well in this thread and
oversimplified some information, but that in no way implies I don't know
what I'm talking about. It rather implies that I felt you had a higher
level of understanding. Also, since I don't do the *really* high-end type
of sound manipulation, I always check my sources to make sure there isn't
anything I'm leaving out. You may not like my information, but they get
paid to understand and utilize the technology available. And to answer the
next question, they get paid for professional music creation, not technical
support or computer repair. I have no problem letting anyone know my
limits, note that I have stated I only know the technical aspects of the
Audigy PCMCIA card, and rather plainly stated that I have never used it so
couldn't give you a "how do you think it sounds" review.

I wish you all the best with your new Indigo card. I would like to hear how
it works once you get it installed in your system, and again, I'm happy
that you have found something that sounds well to your ear as well as (I
presume) has some good functionality. I've always found that getting the
right mix of functionality is the hardest bill to fill, and seeing what else
is out there can't hurt. I might even get interested in a notebook system
myself and get away from my base desktop setup.

Best wishes,

Shylirin

>
> > VST is just there to manage MIDI instruments or devices (such as
> > soundfonts), you still need a synthesizer to produce the sound (talked
> with
> > my professional MIDI guys to confirm this, as they work with the
software
> > all day). The Creative cards take actual sounds and manipulates it to
> > produce more realistic sounds. The advantage is that you have less
> > dependence on the CPU to do the processes (i.e., increases system
speed),
> > plus the more realistic sounds mentioned above. Software synthesizers
can
> > drain your system's resources, especially when using more professional
> grade
> > musical creation tools. Creative invented Soundfonts, and made them an
> open
> > standard, so that other cards also use Soundfonts. Creative designs
it's
> > hardware around the idea that Soundfonts will be used. As other
companies
> > can use the same technology, to determine which card "sounds" best to
you,
> > try listening to them to see which sounds best to your ear. If I
remember
> > correctly, Creative has one of the best signal-to-noise ratios on the
> > market, and the better the signal-to-noise ratio, the better the sound
> > quality for a given level of sound. So... any software plus any sound
> card
> > may not produce the best quality sound.
> >
> > I was replying in a general sense, since Creative is not the only
company
> > that utilizes RAM to store the Soundfonts and the chip on the card to do
> the
> > mathematical extrapolations. I was meaning to state that storing the
> > Soundfonts on the actual hardware sound card was not as good as the
> current
> > general technology, which is to store the Soundfonts in RAM and use a
> > chipset (on the card) to do the extrapolations.
> >
> > Sorry if this isn't coming across well... it's not coming out quite like
I
> > would like it to. I hope this helps better than my other posts... :)
> >
> > Shylirin

*snipped for brevity*

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:15:15 -0800

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:VWLAd.380$tu2.89071@sooner.brightok.net...

> I do know who Cakewalk is, and I've worked with the software. Didn't like
> some of the user interface, but I find that is true of many programs.

Well, as I said, look at the forum there, and do a search on "Soundblaster".
See for yourself what people who work heavily in digital music production
think of Soundblaster cards.

> Notice I said VST, and NOT VST plugins. There is a difference.

You really don't know anything at all about this, and you still pretend you
do! VST all has to do with plugins--softsynths, samplers, effects, etc, that
you plug into a VSTi capable host application like the Steinberg products.
(Cakewalk-Sonar uses DXI plug-ins instead of VST. However, it comes with a
"wrapper", that can comvert the VST plug-ins to DXI.

So, can you please explain the "difference" between VST, which you were
talking about, and VST plug-ins, which you were NOT talking about? I'm
sorry, but there is no way to discuss VST without discussing plug-ins,
because that is what VST is about.

You are completely ignorant of this, yet pretend to know about it, which is
the height of arrogance. When you are not familiar with something, the best
thing to do is to learn about it. Yet you didn't even bother to look at the
URLS I gave you, but still pretend that you were right before. Why not just
say something like "sorry, I made a mistake", rather than insisting that
what you wrote before was correct, which it isn't? And you make it worse
with that statement above, that you were referring to VST, not VST plug-ins?
(There is no VST without plug-ins. It is a protocol for plug-ins.)

>You do know
> that you have to have hardware involved to do anything with sound,
correct?
> VST is software. It integrates with your hardware (whether that be your
> MB-integrated sound chip, MIDI instrument, or sound card). If you have no
> sound card, sound chip, or MIDI instrument, you get doodly-squat if you
just
> load the VST software.

Well--you couldn't load any software at all without hardware. If you didn't
have a computer (hardwarre), and you got a software CD, what would you do
with it? Eat the CD? (LOL) Use it as a coaster to put your coffee cup on?
(Oh--that would be interfacing with hardware too--the coffee cup!) Of course
software interfaces with hardware, and is meaningless without hardware. Of
course if you have no sound card, your sound software won't make any sound.
But what's the point? That's so obvious to anyone who has ever touched a
computer, it sounds ridiculous to state it, silly and childish. Yes, your
sound software will not make any sound without a sound card, it won't even
say "doodly squat". (But what computer doesn't have a sound card?)

> Ergo, VST software manages your sound hardware,

Very profound statement! (LOL) Yes, all sound software plays through sound
hardware. Again, silly to say. It sounds like you keep on repeating very
obvious statements to make it look like you know something, when these are
things that everyone knows, even obvious to a five year old child!

> soundfonts, provides software functionality, etc.

Another statement of great profundity! Software "provides software
functionality". Wow, that's great to know! I wouldn't have known that
software provides software functionality, if you hadn't told me that. Since
you have no idea what VST is, you bless us with the divine wisdom that it
"provides software functionality!

>Using an integrated sound
> chip and VST software alone, or an attached MIDI instrument will cause the
> CPU to take the brunt of increased processing. Using a sound card will
> reduce the workload on the CPU.

Not true. Much higher CPU load playing MIDI through a soundcard, than
through an attached MIDI instrument. The latter is not much of a CPU load at
all, since the synthesis takes place in the MIDI instrument, the computer
just sends MIDI messages to the MIDI instrument, which converts those
messages into sound. With a sound card, the computer itself is involved in
synthesizing the sound, a very much higher use of the CPU. In fact, some of
the oldest PCs, x86 chip, running DOS, could play MIDI (provided you had a
MIDI interface) through a MIDI instrument. I was doing it, I had the DOS
versions of Cakewalk, Band-In-A-Box, etc. Those computers sure could not
have run softsynths, however, which just started to be possible with the
Pentium chip.

> Again... I know what I am talking about. You seem to have a
misuderstanding
> of how the hardware-software interface works,

Right--I thought that you were supposed to eat the software CDs, or use them
as coasters. (Although I guess those are still interfacing with hardware.
;-) ) Of course all software interfaces with hardware. Again, you are
childishly repeating an obvious statement to everyone, and you think that
makes you sound smart!

>and what is hardware based vs.
> software based.

I'm sorry, but there is no separation there. Anything done on a computer
involves both hardware and software.

If you are referring to using a hardware synth (MIDI out going from the
computer to an outboard MIDI sound module) , or to software synthesizers, of
course the latter uses much more computing power, but it is possible with
today's computers. (Of course, both possibilities involve software and
hardware.)

>Perhaps I have not expressed myself well in this thread and
> oversimplified some information, but that in no way implies I don't know
> what I'm talking about. It rather implies that I felt you had a higher
> level of understanding.

I guess I'll have to take some lessons from you, so that I can become
brilliant like you, with a "higher level of understanding", so that I can
comprehend that software interfaces with hardware!

>Also, since I don't do the *really* high-end type
> of sound manipulation, I always check my sources to make sure there isn't
> anything I'm leaving out.

Now you are admitting that you don't know much about this. You asked someone
what is VST, they were probably busy and gave you a quick answer, that you
didn't understand, but you pretend that you know what it means, and keep
making a fool of yourself by making statements that sound more ridiculous.
Wouldn't it have been better just to have said that you were not familiar
with that? That wouldn't be anything to be ashamed of, most people in the
world do not know what VST is. But the arrogance of pretending to know about
something you know nothing about is what makes you sound like a fool, like
your statement above that you "were talking about VST, not VST plug-ins".
Why don't you run that statement by your "sources"?

>You may not like my information, but they get
> paid to understand and utilize the technology available.

You pay them to give you misinformation? Ha Ha. If these "sources" are
really people involved in music production with computers, they probably did
not give you misinformation, but you did not understand what they said, and
then you invent what you think they said. Why even post about something you
know nothing about, and then ask other people for information, to include in
your posts. (Furthermore, you didn't understand what they told you, yet
pretend that you do, in making totally erroneous statements.)

> have no problem letting anyone know my
> limits,

Pleeeazzze. Why didn't you just say you didn't understand something then,
rather than pretending you do?

> I wish you all the best with your new Indigo card.

Thank you.

>'m happy
> that you have found something that sounds well to your ear as well as (I
> presume) has some good functionality.

Well, I haven't heard it yet, so I cannot say it "sounds well to my ears".
However, as I said, in asking around a lot in music forums, there were only
very excellent reviews of the Indigo card (the Echo company's products are
geared towards musicians, while Creative's are geared towards the general
public) from people who have used it. I didn't find anyone who had used the
Audigy PC card (which is much newer), so I didn't get a review of that.
However, as I said, there were many negative statements about Soundblasters
in general. The overwhelming advice was "go for the Indigo", so I decided to
do that, even though it cost more. As I said, not the right choice for
everyone, but that's what I decided to go with.

Happy New Year to all!

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 5 Jan 2005 22:18:01 -0600

..> See for yourself what people who work heavily in digital music production
> think of Soundblaster cards.

I am sure that many people have their own opinions. I know Creative isn't
popular in a lot of ways. You'd be unpopular too with some of their
business practices. You have your opinions, others have theirs, I have
mine. I like my card, 'nuff said.

Now you are admitting that you don't know much about this. You asked
someone
> what is VST, they were probably busy and gave you a quick answer, that you
> didn't understand, but you pretend that you know what it means, and keep
> making a fool of yourself by making statements that sound more ridiculous.
> Wouldn't it have been better just to have said that you were not familiar
> with that? That wouldn't be anything to be ashamed of, most people in the
> world do not know what VST is. But the arrogance of pretending to know
about
> something you know nothing about is what makes you sound like a fool, like
> your statement above that you "were talking about VST, not VST plug-ins".
> Why don't you run that statement by your "sources"?

Still not getting it. I was saying that I don't do this professionally. I
DO NOT have a really awesome setup (much as I wish I had the talent to make
it a profession). I have a lower-end setup that I like. I use it. No, I
didn't ask someone what VST was. I didn't need to. To repeat: I do work
with music. I know people who do it better. We talk, like professionals.
They have more experience. It's like having a Master's but working with a
Ph.D. Working in a vacuum usually doesn't work well. I've never claimed to
be the Ph.D. I made the statement so you would know that I'm not the only
one agreeing with my statements. I agree to disagree with you. 'Nuff
said... I stick to my information, regardless of your opinion. I can still
put together a working setup and understand how to use it.

> >You may not like my information, but they get
> > paid to understand and utilize the technology available.
>
> You pay them to give you misinformation? Ha Ha. If these "sources" are
> really people involved in music production with computers, they probably
did
> not give you misinformation, but you did not understand what they said,
and
> then you invent what you think they said. Why even post about something
you
> know nothing about, and then ask other people for information, to include
in
> your posts. (Furthermore, you didn't understand what they told you, yet
> pretend that you do, in making totally erroneous statements.)

No, and no. I'll let you know as soon as you get one of those wild guesses
correct. I don't pay anyone. They get paid for contracts, same as many
pros. If you'd like a number to help you, my "Ph.D" peers are three in
number.

> > have no problem letting anyone know my
> > limits,
>
> Pleeeazzze. Why didn't you just say you didn't understand something then,
> rather than pretending you do?
>
> > I wish you all the best with your new Indigo card.
>
> Thank you.
>
> >'m happy
> > that you have found something that sounds well to your ear as well as (I
> > presume) has some good functionality.
>
> Well, I haven't heard it yet, so I cannot say it "sounds well to my ears".
> However, as I said, in asking around a lot in music forums, there were
only
> very excellent reviews of the Indigo card (the Echo company's products are
> geared towards musicians, while Creative's are geared towards the general
> public) from people who have used it. I didn't find anyone who had used
the
> Audigy PC card (which is much newer), so I didn't get a review of that.
> However, as I said, there were many negative statements about
Soundblasters
> in general. The overwhelming advice was "go for the Indigo", so I decided
to
> do that, even though it cost more. As I said, not the right choice for
> everyone, but that's what I decided to go with.
>
> Happy New Year to all!

Happy New Year to you as well.

Now for my last statement on this "I know more than you" issue. I've never
met you. I don't know who you are. I've never heard a thing you've
created. We surely don't use the same hardware, and I'd bet money we'd
never agree on what software works better for different applications. I
made the mistake once of replying on this subject and you can bet I won't do
it again. (BTW, that is NOT an "I was wrong" statement, to make that clear
before someone gets the wrong idea.) I won't continue this argument on this
newsgroup. I don't like to read arguments, and will not contribute to
more. If you want to continue this, you can meet me in email. Also, I would
have gladly read your link just to see where in the world you're getting
your information, but it wouldn't load. You can bet I'll try again later.

I am going to drop any further replies to this thread. You are welcome to
continue replies through email as suggested above. I wouldn't want to give
the impression that "I'm too good" to continue to support my information.
I'll happily agree to disagree with you in further silence on the ng, and
vociferiously in email.

Best of luck.

Shy
(Who is back from a nice vacation playing with ion drives and Tesla coils)

From:	Barry Graham
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:29:47 +1100

Getting back to the Audigy Notebook PCMCIA card.
I've looked over various Creative sites and read the limited specs that they
offer.
All the blurb was directed to audio output.

Nowhere do I see any mention of MIDI capability - No MIDI IN or MIDI OUT.
Line In, Line Out (headphone jack) and Audio output to SS speaker systems
only.

The card is Soundfont capable so I guess it will playback MIDI files using
soundfonts.
I'm sure the soundfonts are in system memory rather than on the card -
similar to the Live and the Audigy.

What a shame it doesn't provide MIDI connections - but I guess you can use
USB connections to a keyboard.
Has anyone here tried or checked out this card?

-------------------------------------
Barry Graham
Top Brass Events Band
Melbourne, Australia
www.topbrass.com.au

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:40:59 -0800

"Barry Graham" wrote in message
news:41d143df@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

> Nowhere do I see any mention of MIDI capability - No MIDI IN or MIDI OUT.
> Line In, Line Out (headphone jack) and Audio output to SS speaker systems
> only.

No currently available PCMCIA sound cards have MIDI ins and outs. I have a
couple older (no longer made) ones that do, the Roland SCP-55, and the EMU
8710. (These do not work in Windows XP though, no OSs later than Win 98/ME.)
The Echo Indigo I/O (which I decided to buy, most musicians recommended it)
has less ins and outs than the Audigy, just one in and one out, only analog,
not doubling as digital ins and outs like the Audigy card, and no port for
surround sound systems. But it is supposed to have excellent quality for
music.

Of course, they are "MIDI capable", as any sound card is, as one can play
MIDI sounds through them. They do not have built-in hardware MIDI sounds,
however, as that is becoming increasingly less common, with the advent of
software synthesizers, sampler software, etc., which offers a much larger
variety and quality of sounds than any sound card has built in. (The two
older PCMCIA sound cards I mentioned above, did have built-in MIDI wavetable
sounds, a godsend for musicians using notebook computers in those days, as
that was before the days of softsynths.)

As far as hooking up a MIDI keyboard to play into the computer, no, none of
these current PCMCIA sound cards will do that. However, there are many
keyboard controllers that have USB ports these days, for sending the MIDI
data to the computer. Most of these also have standard MIDI In, Out, and
Through ports on them. So if you wish to use an outboard sound module as
well, rather than sounds in the computer, you could hook the sound module to
the keyboard.

Otherwise, there are very inexpensive, small, bus-powered (no AC needed),
USB MIDI interfaces available these days, like for around $39.

From:	fretbuzzZEROONE at hotmail.com
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:01:54 GMT

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:40:59 -0800, " MS"
wrote:

>
>"Barry Graham" wrote in message
>news:41d143df@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
>> Nowhere do I see any mention of MIDI capability - No MIDI IN or MIDI OUT.
>> Line In, Line Out (headphone jack) and Audio output to SS speaker systems
>> only.
>
>No currently available PCMCIA sound cards have MIDI ins and outs. I have a
>couple older (no longer made) ones that do, the Roland SCP-55, and the EMU
>8710.

>>> (These do not work in Windows XP though, no OSs later than Win 98/ME.)<<<

Surely you can emulate the older operating systems with that handy
little feature in XP - on the desktop shortcut you right click, then
there's a tab you can select (I forget the actual titling, I@m running
98SE for normal day to day, but I use XP pro for any music work I do,
and have the older software - cakewalk pro audio 9, cool edit pro from
about 4 years ago etc - set to "run as" win98SE or 2000) which will
offer you the option of several previous versions of Windoze from 95
to 2000 and NT4.x
The older progs work well under XP using this emulation method

>The Echo Indigo I/O (which I decided to buy, most musicians recommended it)
>has less ins and outs than the Audigy, just one in and one out, only analog,
>not doubling as digital ins and outs like the Audigy card, and no port for
>surround sound systems. But it is supposed to have excellent quality for
>music.
>
>Of course, they are "MIDI capable", as any sound card is, as one can play
>MIDI sounds through them. They do not have built-in hardware MIDI sounds,
>however, as that is becoming increasingly less common, with the advent of
>software synthesizers, sampler software, etc., which offers a much larger
>variety and quality of sounds than any sound card has built in. (The two
>older PCMCIA sound cards I mentioned above, did have built-in MIDI wavetable
>sounds, a godsend for musicians using notebook computers in those days, as
>that was before the days of softsynths.)
>
>As far as hooking up a MIDI keyboard to play into the computer, no, none of
>these current PCMCIA sound cards will do that. However, there are many
>keyboard controllers that have USB ports these days, for sending the MIDI
>data to the computer. Most of these also have standard MIDI In, Out, and
>Through ports on them. So if you wish to use an outboard sound module as
>well, rather than sounds in the computer, you could hook the sound module to
>the keyboard.
>
>Otherwise, there are very inexpensive, small, bus-powered (no AC needed),
>USB MIDI interfaces available these days, like for around $39.
>
>

From:	Laurence Payne
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:16:30 +0000

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:01:54 GMT, fretbuzzZEROONE@hotmail.com wrote:

>Surely you can emulate the older operating systems with that handy
>little feature in XP - on the desktop shortcut you right click, then
>there's a tab you can select (I forget the actual titling, I@m running
>98SE for normal day to day, but I use XP pro for any music work I do,
>and have the older software - cakewalk pro audio 9, cool edit pro from
>about 4 years ago etc - set to "run as" win98SE or 2000) which will
>offer you the option of several previous versions of Windoze from 95
>to 2000 and NT4.x
>The older progs work well under XP using this emulation method

Compatibility mode can get you out of trouble sometimes, but it's by
no means a full emulation of earlier Windows versions. Give it a try
though, by all means.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

From:	David Chien
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:16:06 -0800

If anyone buys one, please post re: how slow of a notebook it will
actually work in (if you have an older <600Mhz laptop around). I want
to know if you can use in some of the smaller portables.

Thanks!

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:28:09 -0800

"David Chien" wrote in message
news:cqsbcd$hd8$3@news.service.uci.edu...
> If anyone buys one, please post re: how slow of a notebook it will
> actually work in (if you have an older <600Mhz laptop around). I want
> to know if you can use in some of the smaller portables.
>
> Thanks!

Size really has nothing to do with it.

"Older" might. I think I've read "at least 1000 mHz" as a requirement, I
don't recall for sure.

If you look at the web site about the Creative card for which I gave the
URL, there is a tab called "requirements", in which you can see the minimum
requirements. (And usually in those listings, companies err on the low side
in stating the requirements.)

It is a cardbus card, and all the newer computers have that. However,
laptops of a few years ago, although they had PCMCIA slots, were not
compatible with Cardbus, which is a newer standard. If you have an older
laptop, you should investigate that before buying.

If you do have one of those older non-cardbus laptops, and are using an OS
not newer than Windows 98 or ME (the following cards will not work in XP),
you might see if you can find a used Roland SCP-55 or EMU 8710 for sale.

From:	MS
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:18:56 -0800

Well---how well does it work? Do you use the card?

Your general review of it?

"Shylirin" wrote in message
news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
>
> " MS" wrote in message
> news:1103874008.114862@news-1.nethere.net...
> > Anyone here tried it? How well does it work? Any problems?
> >
> > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts in
> > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with it?
> >
>
> The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
>
> > Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
>
> This technology isn't used anymore. :)
>
> Shylirin
>
>

From:	Shylirin
Subject:	Re: New PCMCIA Soumd Card--Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:03:49 -0600

I've never used it myself. I have an Audigy, but could ask some other folks
who have used it to see how they feel the performance is. I've personally
never had any problems with my Creative products, but know of some of the
complaints, such as Creative not having all of their software available for
download in case of lost disks/CDs (but most can be found on drivers.com,
for anyone who might need these!). You might try google for some unbiased
reviews as well! Sorry that I haven't had a chance to review the card
myself!

Shylirin
" MS" wrote in message
news:1104135627.389518@news-1.nethere.net...
> Well---how well does it work? Do you use the card?
>
> Your general review of it?
>
>
> "Shylirin" wrote in message
> news:1dPzd.360$tu2.86028@sooner.brightok.net...
> >
> > " MS" wrote in message
> > news:1103874008.114862@news-1.nethere.net...
> > > Anyone here tried it? How well does it work? Any problems?
> > >
> > > I see it has SoundFont capability? Does it actually store Soundfonts
in
> > > hardware memory, or is it that a software Soundfont synth comes with
it?
> > >
> >
> > The hardware does the mathematical extrapolations, the actual sound
> > recordings are stored in the computer's physical memory (RAM).
> >
> > > Does it have built-in hardware wavetable MIDI sounds?
> >
> > This technology isn't used anymore. :)
> >
> > Shylirin
> >
> >
>
>