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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:11:15 GMT |
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 | "The Klan is needed today as never before.
I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds."
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 22:23:24 -0800 |
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 | NOYB wrote:
I was doing undercover research. Byrd was the Grand Kleagle.
*********************
Bullshit. Byrd made that statement about the Klan being needed more than ever before in a letter he wrote in 1946. You weren't even born then. Maybe your parents weren't even born then. We know for a fact Condi Rice wasn't born then. How ridiculous to state, or even imply, that his opinion of 59 years ago is driving his actions today. How false to state or imply that such a statement reflects his feelings toward a specific individual.
As I said, it's the race card in reverse.
What's the dumbest, most shameful thing you ever said? Here's hoping it hounds you for 60 years.
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 | | From: | JohnH | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:44:14 -0500 |
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 | On 20 Jan 2005 22:23:24 -0800, gould0738@aol.com wrote:
>NOYB wrote: > >I was doing undercover research. Byrd was the Grand Kleagle. > >********************* > >Bullshit. Byrd made that statement about the Klan being needed more >than ever before in a letter he wrote in 1946. You weren't even born >then. Maybe your parents weren't even born then. >We know for a fact Condi Rice wasn't born then. How ridiculous to >state, or even imply, that his opinion of 59 years ago is driving his >actions today. How false to state or imply that such a statement >reflects his feelings toward a specific individual. > >As I said, it's the race card in reverse. > >What's the dumbest, most shameful thing you ever said? Here's hoping it >hounds you for 60 years.
Thank God that Byrd, Kerry, and Boxer don't represent the majority of liberals.
John H
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:00:00 GMT |
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 | wrote in message news:1106288604.922812.184260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > NOYB wrote: > > I was doing undercover research. Byrd was the Grand Kleagle. > > ********************* > > Bullshit. Byrd made that statement about the Klan being needed more > than ever before in a letter he wrote in 1946. You weren't even born > then. Maybe your parents weren't even born then.
I wasn't born when the Nazis were murdering Jews either. So what's your point? Transgressions don't count unless they happened in the last 33 years?
> We know for a fact Condi Rice wasn't born then. How ridiculous to > state, or even imply, that his opinion of 59 years ago is driving his > actions today. How false to state or imply that such a statement > reflects his feelings toward a specific individual.
Leopards don't change their spots, Chuck. If the guy let the N-word accidently slip 59 years ago, that'd be one thing. But he was a leader in one of the most hateful of the hate groups in our nation's history. How many peoples' blood is on Byrd's hands thanks to the hateful talk coming from their Grand Kleagle?
Here's an apt analogy: Has anybody forgiven the Nazis who went into hiding after WWII? Nope. Then why are Klan members (particularly Klan *leaders*) absolved of *their* sins?
It's a fucked up political party that openly accepts former KKK leaders into their ranks.
> > As I said, it's the race card in reverse.
I know that you said it. You just haven't demonstrated how it's "the race card in reverse". Rice is black. Byrd was a leader in the KKK when he called black people mongrels. Just becaue he hasn't donned a hood in 40 years, doesn't mean he no longer harbors those feelings.
BTW--how many years ago did Byrd publicly use the word "nigger" again? I'm pretty sure that it was in the last decade or so.
> > What's the dumbest, most shameful thing you ever said?
I think that I once called you intelligent. So you're right...I'm embarassed.
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 10:56:51 -0800 |
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 | >From what I read, the "opposition to Rice" is pretty inconsequential, and is "spearheaded" by Barbara Boxer and John Kerry. Any opposition is strictly ceremonial, and because some lowlife rightwingers with bad intentions might decide to play the race card in reverse, ("They couldn't possibly be opposed to Rice on philosophical or politcal grounds, its only because she's a woman and/or she's black....."), and because in dumbed down America that little sound byte would resonate better than an accurate, more complex answer- opposing Rice could take a toll when the next election comes around.
It wouldn't even matter if liberal black people refered to her as "Uncle Tom's Brown Rice," it's still politically dangerous to expose ones flank to the few right wing hypocrites ready to yell "racism!"
As long as the Republicans hold congress, Bush can push anybody through he likes. We could see Ken Lay as Secty. of the Treasury. Who knows? He's a close friend of GWB's and we still might.
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 | | From: | Wayne.B | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:43:17 -0500 |
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 | On 20 Jan 2005 10:56:51 -0800, gould0738@aol.com wrote:
>We could see Ken Lay as Secty. of the Treasury. Who knows? >He's a close friend of GWB's and we still might.
=========================================
Ken could certainly find a way to balance the books and close the trade gap.
For a time.
How's boating in the PNW these days?
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:42:04 GMT |
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 | wrote in message news:1106247411.014759.316100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > >From what I read, the "opposition to Rice" is pretty inconsequential, > and is "spearheaded" by > Barbara Boxer and John Kerry. Any opposition is strictly ceremonial, > and because some lowlife rightwingers with bad intentions might decide > to play the race card in reverse, ("They couldn't possibly be opposed > to Rice on philosophical or politcal grounds, its only because she's a > woman and/or she's black....."),
How is it "the race card in reverse"? Is Rice not black?
Regardless of what you may have heard to the contrary, Byrd is definitely one of the Democratic Senators who is spearheading the opposition. Given his history as a member in the KKK, one must consider racism as part of his motivation.
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 | | From: | Jack Goff | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:19:14 GMT |
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 | "NOYB" wrote in message news:wIUHd.2379$rp1.1094@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net... > > wrote in message > news:1106247411.014759.316100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > >From what I read, the "opposition to Rice" is pretty inconsequential, > > and is "spearheaded" by > > Barbara Boxer and John Kerry. Any opposition is strictly ceremonial, > > and because some lowlife rightwingers with bad intentions might decide > > to play the race card in reverse, ("They couldn't possibly be opposed > > to Rice on philosophical or politcal grounds, its only because she's a > > woman and/or she's black....."), > > How is it "the race card in reverse"? Is Rice not black? >
Because it's normally the low-life libs that play the race card. And play it, and play it....
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:30:20 -0500 |
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 | "Jack Goff" wrote in message news:S%WHd.43251$fE4.5249945@twister.southeast.rr.com... > > "NOYB" wrote in message > news:wIUHd.2379$rp1.1094@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net... >> >> wrote in message >> news:1106247411.014759.316100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >> > >From what I read, the "opposition to Rice" is pretty inconsequential, >> > and is "spearheaded" by >> > Barbara Boxer and John Kerry. Any opposition is strictly ceremonial, >> > and because some lowlife rightwingers with bad intentions might decide >> > to play the race card in reverse, ("They couldn't possibly be opposed >> > to Rice on philosophical or politcal grounds, its only because she's a >> > woman and/or she's black....."), >> >> How is it "the race card in reverse"? Is Rice not black? >> > > Because it's normally the low-life libs that play the race card.
I wanted Gould to admit that.
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 | | From: | basskisser | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 10:09:17 -0800 |
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 | JimH wrote: > "basskisser" wrote in message > news:1106241705.661625.212340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > > > JimH wrote: > >> "basskisser" wrote in message > >> news:1106235422.984983.322720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > >> > > >> > NOYB wrote: > >> >> "The Klan is needed today as never before. > >> >> > >> >> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in > >> > the dirt > >> >> never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become > >> > degraded by > >> >> race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." > >> > > >> > I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because > > of > >> > the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet. > >> > > >> > >> Wow, that is not what Kerry said. He called her more than qualified > > and > >> very capable of doing the job. > >> > >> The majority of Democrats in the Senate also approved her. > > So what? Kerry was trying to be nice to the mutt. What is your point? > > > > Wooooooooooooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Well, Jim, why don't YOU explain it?? What does something that Kerry said about Rice, have ANYTHING to do with what *I* feel about her???
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 | | From: | basskisser | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 07:37:03 -0800 |
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 | NOYB wrote: > "The Klan is needed today as never before. > > I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt > never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by > race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds."
I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because of the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet.
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 | | From: | JimH | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:54:02 -0500 |
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 | "basskisser" wrote in message news:1106235422.984983.322720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > NOYB wrote: >> "The Klan is needed today as never before. >> >> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in > the dirt >> never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become > degraded by >> race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." > > I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because of > the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet. >
Wow, that is not what Kerry said. He called her more than qualified and very capable of doing the job.
The majority of Democrats in the Senate also approved her.
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 | | From: | Doug Kanter | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:23:21 GMT |
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 | "JimH" wrote in message news:RbSdnb13DPmBSXLcRVn-pA@comcast.com... > > "basskisser" wrote in message > news:1106235422.984983.322720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> >> NOYB wrote: >>> "The Klan is needed today as never before. >>> >>> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in >> the dirt >>> never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become >> degraded by >>> race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." >> >> I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because of >> the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet. >> > > Wow, that is not what Kerry said. He called her more than qualified and > very capable of doing the job. > > The majority of Democrats in the Senate also approved her. >
......with a few major qualifications, almost equivalent to a probationary period. Pay attention to what you heard on the news.
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 | | From: | Tamaroak | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:34:51 -0600 |
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 | I couldn't have put it better myself.
Capt. jeff
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 22:12:59 -0800 |
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 | NOYB wrote:
How is it "the race card in reverse"? Is Rice not black?
Regardless of what you may have heard to the contrary, Byrd is definitely one of the Democratic Senators who is spearheading the opposition. Given his history as a member in the KKK, one must consider racism as part of his motivation.
**************
And that Byrd quote is several years old, and had nothing specifically to do with Condi Rice's nomination. *You* dredged it up, and tossed it out as though it were an accurate reflection of somebody's personal feelings about Rice's qualifications to be SOS.
You don't get it. It's possible to oppose a black person without oppposing that person *because* they're black. It takes a fairly colorblind person to realize this.
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 22:16:04 -0800 |
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 | Jack Goff wrote:
Because it's normally the low-life libs that play the race card. And play it, and play it....
******************************************
At least Jack recognizes that somebody yelling, "They only oppose Rice because she's a black woman" is playing the race card. As far as his opinion that some other group does it more or less often,,,,,,,that's not relevant to our examination of whether or not NOYB has done it here.
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 | | From: | Jack Goff | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:39:02 GMT |
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 | wrote in message news:1106288164.078168.155280@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Jack Goff wrote: > > Because it's normally the low-life libs that play the race card. And > play > it, and play it.... > > ****************************************** > > At least Jack recognizes that somebody yelling, "They only oppose Rice > because she's a black woman" is playing the race card. As far as his > opinion that some other group does it more or less often,,,,,,,that's > not relevant to our examination of whether or not NOYB has done it here.
But it is relevant when judging your statement that "lowlife rightwingers with bad intentions might decide to play the race card in reverse". If just a tactic, it's a play straight out of the lowlife playbook of the lowlife Democratic Party. If true, it sinks the lowlife lib's boat, eh?
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:13:41 GMT |
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 | wrote in message news:1106288164.078168.155280@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> less often,,,,,,,that's not
Tuuk? Is that you?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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 | | From: | basskisser | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 21 Jan 2005 06:02:46 -0800 |
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 | NOYB wrote:
> Leopards don't change their spots, Chuck.
Really? People can't change? You need to get your blinders off and look around you.
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 08:21:10 -0800 |
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 | Gee whiz, NOYB. You have never ever really mentioned being religious.
http://www.awkkkk.org/kludd/kluddkorner.htm
Can we assume you're posting what "some" feel because it is what you feel as well?
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:33:12 GMT |
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 | wrote in message news:1106238070.858262.256910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Gee whiz, NOYB. You have never ever really mentioned being religious. > > > http://www.awkkkk.org/kludd/kluddkorner.htm > > Can we assume you're posting what "some" feel because it is what you > feel as well?
Hehehe. Nice try, but wrong.
The author is Democratic Senator Robert Byrd...who is now spear-heading the opposition to Rice.
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 | | From: | Harry Krause | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:36:29 -0500 |
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 | NOYB wrote: > "The Klan is needed today as never before. > > I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt > never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by > race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." > > > > >
Was this the rallying cry at the meeting you attended?
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:31:35 -0500 |
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 | "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:7tSdnWuuPIcQ023cRVn-uA@comcast.com... > NOYB wrote: >> "The Klan is needed today as never before. >> >> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the >> dirt never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become >> degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the >> wilds." >> >> >> >> >> > > Was this the rallying cry at the meeting you attended?
I was doing undercover research. Byrd was the Grand Kleagle.
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 | | From: | basskisser | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 20 Jan 2005 09:21:45 -0800 |
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 | JimH wrote: > "basskisser" wrote in message > news:1106235422.984983.322720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > > > NOYB wrote: > >> "The Klan is needed today as never before. > >> > >> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in > > the dirt > >> never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become > > degraded by > >> race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." > > > > I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because of > > the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet. > > > > Wow, that is not what Kerry said. He called her more than qualified and > very capable of doing the job. > > The majority of Democrats in the Senate also approved her. So what? Kerry was trying to be nice to the mutt. What is your point?
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 | | From: | JimH | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:25:30 -0500 |
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 | "basskisser" wrote in message news:1106241705.661625.212340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > JimH wrote: >> "basskisser" wrote in message >> news:1106235422.984983.322720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > NOYB wrote: >> >> "The Klan is needed today as never before. >> >> >> >> I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in >> > the dirt >> >> never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become >> > degraded by >> >> race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds." >> > >> > I don't think she should be Sec. of State, either. But, not because > of >> > the above, but because she is nothing but an unqualified puppet. >> > >> >> Wow, that is not what Kerry said. He called her more than qualified > and >> very capable of doing the job. >> >> The majority of Democrats in the Senate also approved her. > So what? Kerry was trying to be nice to the mutt. What is your point? >
Wooooooooooooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 21 Jan 2005 10:31:51 -0800 |
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 | NOYB wrote:
Leopards don't change their spots, Chuck
************************
I wasn't aware that Byrd was a leopard, or that the characteristics of his personal, physical appearance were the issue. His statements in 1946 were reprehensible. That doesn't mean that he was frozen in time and didn't evolve, along with the rest of society, to a more tolerant attitude and a positive appreciation of the differences between various groups of people. In 1946, a probable majority of white southerners empathized, if not actively agreed, with Byrd's opinion. Look at the guy that's just now up on trial for killing the civil rights activists down south in the early 60's--- an entire community conspired to hide and protect him for 40 years.
You threw that old quote in here without a disclosure that it was 59 years out of date, and with a hope that some simpleton would conclude it was something Byrd actually said about Rice. Check the title of this thread.......who wrote that?
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:07:36 -0500 |
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 | wrote in message news:1106332311.371602.127650@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > NOYB wrote: > Look at the guy that's just now > up on trial for killing the civil rights activists down south in the > early 60's--- an entire community conspired to hide and protect him for > 40 years.
Just like the Democratic party continues to protect Byrd for 59 years, eh?
If that guy is being held to account 40 years later, why isn't the same being done to Byrd?
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 | | From: | Harry Krause | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:38:42 -0500 |
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 | gould0738@aol.com wrote: > NOYB wrote: > > Leopards don't change their spots, Chuck > > ************************ > > I wasn't aware that Byrd was a leopard, or that the characteristics of > his personal, physical appearance were the issue. His statements in > 1946 were reprehensible. > That doesn't mean that he was frozen in time and didn't evolve, along > with the rest of society, to a more tolerant attitude and a positive > appreciation of the differences between various groups of people. In > 1946, a probable majority of white southerners empathized, if not > actively agreed, with Byrd's opinion. Look at the guy that's just now > up on trial for killing the civil rights activists down south in the > early 60's--- an entire community conspired to hide and protect him for > 40 years. > > You threw that old quote in here without a disclosure that it was 59 > years out of date, and with a hope that some simpleton would conclude > it was something Byrd actually said about Rice. > Check the title of this thread.......who wrote that? >
I think Condi Rice is lying pondscum. But, then, I think most of the Bush administration is lying pondscum. They're lying pondscum, regardless of their race, gender, or planet of origin.
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 | | From: | NOYB | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:08:51 -0500 |
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 | "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:GbmdnWm_VJSu0WzcRVn-qg@comcast.com... > gould0738@aol.com wrote: >> NOYB wrote: >> >> Leopards don't change their spots, Chuck >> >> ************************ >> >> I wasn't aware that Byrd was a leopard, or that the characteristics of >> his personal, physical appearance were the issue. His statements in >> 1946 were reprehensible. >> That doesn't mean that he was frozen in time and didn't evolve, along >> with the rest of society, to a more tolerant attitude and a positive >> appreciation of the differences between various groups of people. In >> 1946, a probable majority of white southerners empathized, if not >> actively agreed, with Byrd's opinion. Look at the guy that's just now >> up on trial for killing the civil rights activists down south in the >> early 60's--- an entire community conspired to hide and protect him for >> 40 years. >> >> You threw that old quote in here without a disclosure that it was 59 >> years out of date, and with a hope that some simpleton would conclude >> it was something Byrd actually said about Rice. >> Check the title of this thread.......who wrote that? >> > > > I think Condi Rice is lying pondscum. But, then, I think most of the Bush > administration is lying pondscum. They're lying pondscum, regardless of > their race, gender, or planet of origin.
I think Byrd is a piece of shit. But, then, I think most of the Democratic Party are pieces of shit. They're pieces of shit, regardless of their race, gender, or planet of origin.
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 | | From: | Jack Goff | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:34:59 GMT |
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 | "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:GbmdnWm_VJSu0WzcRVn-qg@comcast.com... > I think Condi Rice is lying pondscum. But, then, I think most of the > Bush administration is lying pondscum. They're lying pondscum, > regardless of their race, gender, or planet of origin.
They're union?
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 | | From: | gould0738 at aol.com | | Subject: | Re: OT--Why some feel Condi shouldn't be Secretary of State | | Date: | 21 Jan 2005 22:17:57 -0800 |
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 | wrote in message news:1106332311.371602.127650@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> NOYB wrote: > Look at the guy that's just now > up on trial for killing the civil rights activists down south in the > early 60's--- an entire community conspired to hide and protect him for > 40 years.
Just like the Democratic party continues to protect Byrd for 59 years, eh?
If that guy is being held to account 40 years later, why isn't the same
being done to Byrd?
*******************
Are you saying Byrd committed a murder?
There's a difference between being associated with a now discredited group and even making a ridiculous remark associated with that group and actually killing people. What charges should Byrd be "brought to account" for? Being a democrat?
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