Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
Excellent speech.
You mentioned Freedom 27 times, I see.
Nice word.
The hope, of course, is that freedom will allow the poor and
downtrodden of the globe (the people who once came to America,
remember?) to rise up and take their rightful place in the human
community.
Nice conceit. And not without merit.
But rather simplistic, don't you think?
There are many bonds and ties and restrictions and limitations that
will hinder the ascent of even the most free people. Poverty itself,
for example. Poor education.Poor health. The neighbourhood. The
family. Much else too. It's ain't easy to pull away from your roots.
But you know that, don't you, Mr.President? Look out the window of
your fine white house and see it on the streets of Washington.
And you're an intelligent guy too.
So, really you're offering us pap. Opium for the masses - the dream of
freedom; YOU CAN DO IT! etc
And meanwhile your pals get richer and richer.
Maybe you might think of enriching your second term by engaging with
the real wonder and compexity of the human phenomenon...instead of
just engaging in cynical rhetoric.

Best wishes anyway.

Joseph H

www.humanisation.org

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE LIGHT

From:	joseph at humanisation.org
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	23 Jan 2005 02:22:52 -0800

Gentlemen (and Ladies).....
many thanks for your courteous replies. I think we saw a fair spectrum
of the American Mind (such as it is). From the ridiculous to the sad, I
would say (with a few notable exceptions).
I don't really hold out much hope for our friend from Texas
experiencing a Pauline conversion over the next few years. The man's
too smug for that, too pleased with his own good self.
And he's had his successes. Pity though that he can't see his way to a
more intelligent vision of human capability.
Pity too that non of you guys 'n'girls seem open to the idea eaither.
Maybe Bush has destroyed all your minds.....?
By the way a "conceit" may also be seen as a "nice idea", a "fancy", a
"hope"

Joseph H

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE LIGHT

From:	duke
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:09:25 -0600

On 21 Jan 2005 14:53:54 -0800, joseph@humanisation.org (Joseph H) wrote:

>Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>Excellent speech.
>You mentioned Freedom 27 times, I see.
>Nice word.
>The hope, of course, is that freedom will allow the poor and
>downtrodden of the globe (the people who once came to America,
>remember?) to rise up and take their rightful place in the human
>community.

That's why it's called freedom.

>Nice conceit. And not without merit.

Nice conceit?

>But rather simplistic, don't you think?
>There are many bonds and ties and restrictions and limitations that
>will hinder the ascent of even the most free people. Poverty itself,
>for example. Poor education.Poor health. The neighbourhood. The
>family. Much else too. It's ain't easy to pull away from your roots.

But so many have - the ones that worked for it. The ones that don't look for a handout
rather than hard labor to achieve their dreams.

>But you know that, don't you, Mr.President? Look out the window of
>your fine white house and see it on the streets of Washington.
>And you're an intelligent guy too.
>So, really you're offering us pap. Opium for the masses - the dream of
>freedom; YOU CAN DO IT! etc

Yes, so many don't try. They just want a free ride.

>And meanwhile your pals get richer and richer.

Well, the ones are heavy in count of the ones working at it. And a whole lot of us who
support him don't get richer. We believe what he stands for.

>Maybe you might think of enriching your second term by engaging with
>the real wonder and compexity of the human phenomenon...instead of
>just engaging in cynical rhetoric.

I keep looking for the same from those that want the handout.

>Best wishes anyway.

Anyway? Sounds again like you want, but as a handout rather than hard work.

duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****

From:	Douglas Berry
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:48:39 GMT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:09:25 -0600, duke drained
his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following

>But so many have - the ones that worked for it. The ones that don't look for a handout
>rather than hard labor to achieve their dreams.

OK, George Bush got into Harvard as a legecy student, got into the Air
National Guard through family influence, got into Yale as a legacy
student, never started a business with his own money (never ran a
successful one, either) and when he ran for office, other people paid
for it.

You were saying about handouts?
--

Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.

From:	duke
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:23:47 -0600

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:48:39 GMT, Douglas Berry
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:09:25 -0600, duke drained
>his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
>proclaimed the following

>>But so many have - the ones that worked for it. The ones that don't look for a handout
>>rather than hard labor to achieve their dreams.

>OK, George Bush got into Harvard as a legecy student, got into the Air
>National Guard through family influence, got into Yale as a legacy
>student, never started a business with his own money (never ran a
>successful one, either) and when he ran for office, other people paid
>for it.

>You were saying about handouts?

In Harvard, he had to earn his grades. In the ANG, he had to fly jet fighters,
at Yale he had to earn his grades, as a business man I too never started a
company with my own money, and was President Bush is definitely a significantly
great Governor and President.

You were saying.

duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****

From:	Hü©klëßë®®ÿ Hö§hïmötö
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT (He reads newsgroups???)
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:08:31 GMT

Actually your post was only for the purpose of mastrubating your own mind.
Write yourself a letter!

From:	tooly
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:20:50 -0500

"Joseph H" wrote in message
news:2b0ce0c5.0501211453.3e1f1335@posting.google.com...
> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
> Excellent speech.
> You mentioned Freedom 27 times, I see.
> Nice word.
> The hope, of course, is that freedom will allow the poor and
> downtrodden of the globe (the people who once came to America,
> remember?) to rise up and take their rightful place in the human
> community.

Bald faced fact: Every last species on this planet 'overproduces' itself.
This guarantees winners and losers. But I agree, let's stifle 'incentive'
worldwide by taking the output of those who are productive, and hand it over
to those who aren't. We'll start with you since it's your idea. Your
house, households, car, bank account...we confiscate it tomorrow...to
redistribute to some poor starving soul in Ethiopia. You will feel great to
see your 'dream' coming to fruition. Your own wife and child will
completely understand their own declination for the sake of such poor and
downtrodden and will sing praises to you throughout the day. This will all
only magnify your own motivation to even work harder and to produce even
more.

From:	David V.
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:12:29 -0800

Joseph H wrote:
> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.

THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
--
Dave

.....If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones - Carl Sagan, 1987.

From:	Christopher A. Lee
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:25:09 -0500

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:12:29 -0800, "David V."
wrote:

>Joseph H wrote:
>> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>
>THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?

So he can rub our faces in it.

From:	David V.
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:13:29 -0800

Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> "David V." wrote:
>
>> Joseph H wrote:
>>
>>> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>>
>> THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
>
> So he can rub our faces in it.

Why would he want to rub our face in his BS? That's not nice.
--
Dave

.....If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones - Carl Sagan, 1987.

From:	Christopher A. Lee
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:32:07 -0500

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:13:29 -0800, "David V."
wrote:

>Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>> "David V." wrote:
>>
>>> Joseph H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>>>
>>> THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
>>
>> So he can rub our faces in it.
>
>Why would he want to rub our face in his BS? That's not nice.

He isn't.

From:	kathryn
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:27:03 +0000 (UTC)

"David V." wrote in message
news:IuadnRKyEY1EOG_cRVn-sQ@sti.net...
> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>> "David V." wrote:
>>
>>> Joseph H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>>>
>>> THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
>>
>> So he can rub our faces in it.
>
> Why would he want to rub our face in his BS? That's not nice.
> --
> Dave
>
>

I don't think it's BS. I (and many others) found Bush's comments about
America bringing American freedom slightly disturbing, particuarily since it
seems to involve killing many civilians in the process.

From:	Sam
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:41:54 GMT

kathryn wrote:

> "David V." wrote in message
> news:IuadnRKyEY1EOG_cRVn-sQ@sti.net...
>
>>Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>
>>>"David V." wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Joseph H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>>>>
>>>>THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
>>>
>>>So he can rub our faces in it.
>>
>>Why would he want to rub our face in his BS? That's not nice.
>>--
>>Dave
>>
>>
>
>
> I don't think it's BS. I (and many others) found Bush's comments about
> America bringing American freedom slightly disturbing, particuarily since it
> seems to involve killing many civilians in the process.
>
>
>

he meant freedom fries, a reference to the new mecca mcdonalds

From:	Al Klein
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:30:35 GMT

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:27:03 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
said in alt.atheism:

>I (and many others) found Bush's comments about
>America bringing American freedom slightly disturbing, particuarily since it
>seems to involve killing many civilians in the process.

But that's what freedom (Bush's kind) is. Freedom from oppression.
If you're oppressed, or if we think you are (even if you think you
aren't), we'll free you from the oppression by killing you. The dead
aren't oppressed.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net

From:	David V.
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:36:09 -0800

kathryn wrote:
> "David V." wrote
>
>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>
>>> "David V." wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joseph H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>>>>
>>>> THen send it to him. Why bother us with it?
>>>
>>> So he can rub our faces in it.
>>
>> Why would he want to rub our face in his BS? That's not
>> nice.
>
> I don't think it's BS. I (and many others) found Bush's
> comments about America bringing American freedom slightly
> disturbing, particuarily since it seems to involve killing
> many civilians in the process.

Of course what bush said is just plain wrong, but Joseph H.
bothering us with every thought he has is BS.
--
Dave

.....If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones - Carl Sagan, 1987.

From:	Steve Knight
Subject:	Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NEW PRESIDENT
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:44:50 GMT

On 21 Jan 2005 14:53:54 -0800, joseph@humanisation.org (Joseph H)
wrote:

>Best of wishes, sir, on your new term.
>Excellent speech.
>You mentioned Freedom 27 times, I see.
>Nice word.

And this has what the fuck to do with atheism? Are you a retard? You
must be. The nurse lets you play with the computer until it's nappy
time.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly